Grand Cherokee WJ - Build

[TazMann]

15 minutes ago, V said:

I don't know what noise you are hearing that is causing concern with your transfer case, but I am wondering if it could be the CV joint on the front shaft. Unfortunately, removing the propshaft will not be conclusive, only replacing it will. Perhaps a friend with the same model Jeep can lend you their front propshaft for a few minutes to try.

I wish i knew someone local to me with a WJ that could help. To be fair i dont see many around here in Birmingham. I'd love to compare noises LOL That would be a good thing. I have the silly front drive shaft with the 2 CV joints  It may be worth seeing if that can be replaced with a propper one as well. I do agree the shaft will only add to my worries. 

[AlexK]

8 minutes ago, spookie the aardvark said:

now you have me wondering which one i have on mine, 2002 4.7 V8 HO.

 

Almost certainly a 247. Quadra-Drive badge on the tailgate?  Don't panic - it's a great t-case.  Strong, too - the Hemi used it.

[spookie the aardvark]

Just now, AlexK said:

 

Almost certainly a 247. Quadra-Drive badge on the tailgate?  Don't panic - it's a great t-case.  Strong, too - the Hemi used it.

Cheers Alex saves me a crawl underneath and yes it does have the "Quadra-Drive badge on the tailgate". I have had people say it is a good system and mine works ok just wondered what type it was, and I haven't broken it yet - touching as much wood as I can find

Always learn one new thing about your Jeep each day

[AlexK]

2 minutes ago, spookie the aardvark said:

I have had people say it is a good system...

 

Quadra-Drive easily one of the best 4x4 systems ever devised by mankind, as far as I'm concerned. 

[spookie the aardvark]

2 minutes ago, AlexK said:

 

Quadra-Drive easily one of the best 4x4 systems ever devised by mankind, as far as I'm concerned. 

I have to admit it work very very well the last time I went to Slindon, which was the first time I had used a Jeep off road and she was in stock configuration at the time, went just about everywhere

[V]

24 minutes ago, TazMann said:

I wish i knew someone local to me with a WJ that could help.

 

How about posting a wanted ad on JOC for help? It is potentially a reciprocal favour if the other person develops the same symptom in the future.

[V]

I have not rebuilt one of these Rzeppa style Jeep driveshafts myself but it looks fairly straight forward. Just don't tighten the drive shaft tube in a vice as you might deform it.

The video shows how to test for free play and examine it for corrosion early on so you may not need a spare shaft to test.

[frosty]

2 hours ago, V said:

 

How about posting a wanted ad on JOC for help? It is potentially a reciprocal favour if the other person develops the same symptom in the future.

i am near manchester, mine is a Non HO 4.7, with quadra drive,  if anyone wants to drive here and swap props, feel free. 

[jerryg]

It is a piece of cake to change the CV joint .  Did it on my KJ after finding a split boot, as in the vid. It was also making funny noises! Unlike the vid which was loose and sloppy, mine was as tight as a drum, aka partially seized! Full of mud from various pay and play sites!

New joint obtained from Driveshaft Parts Ltd, (Chisledon, Swindon), £33.60 delivered. They stock all sorts of bits, CV joints, UJ's etc. for all sorts of vehicles. They also have a vid showing how to get them apart.

[TazMann]

Thanks for all the info guys I am truly grateful  

 

I think what I am going to do is this

 

1. Drop the front prop shaft. This will lock up the NV247 under no load from the front axle. Should be able to hear any noise from chains etc. It will also isolate the front axle and make it an open diff (I think) go for a drive get everything warm, then find a car park. If the noise has disappeared it could be the prop or front axle diff. I can then renew oils in diff's and fingers crossed that works. I could also find out that the Prop CV's are seized as above, in that case renew them or swap to UJ's whilst  its all apart. I know i need a new prop and yokes for this, but i live not far from Des Shelley Shafts and I know he can make a shaft up that will mount to the CV yoke but has UJ's instead. 
2. If the noise remains, its either the NV247 or rear axle. Again, renew diff oils regardless and try again, if that still isn't working its most certainly the NV247.

Does that sound about right guys? I have already told MissusT about the issues, painted worse case picture for her  needless to say she isn't impressed 

 

Frosty, thanks for the offer. I may take you up on the offer if the above dont work. Just out of curiosity do you get any funny noises turning left and slow speeds and mid to full lock??? Mine is a 4.7 Powerflow (non-HO) with Quadradrive.

 

Jerry, thanks for the heads up on the CV joints. I had seen rebuild kits over £100 per end  That makes it a bit more economical to fix. 

 

Again thanks guys. Any other infor, not sure there is much more though V has been a superstar with everything he has posted. I'll let you know how i get on. If this rain stops i may drop the front shaft on Friday........ 

 

Here we go again 

 

[spookie the aardvark]

Good luck Taz I am sure you will get to the bottom of it

[frosty]

On 03/11/2020 at 07:09, TazMann said:

Thanks for all the info guys I am truly grateful  

 

I think what I am going to do is this

 

1. Drop the front prop shaft. This will lock up the NV247 under no load from the front axle. Should be able to hear any noise from chains etc. It will also isolate the front axle and make it an open diff (I think) go for a drive get everything warm, then find a car park. If the noise has disappeared it could be the prop or front axle diff. I can then renew oils in diff's and fingers crossed that works. I could also find out that the Prop CV's are seized as above, in that case renew them or swap to UJ's whilst  its all apart. I know i need a new prop and yokes for this, but i live not far from Des Shelley Shafts and I know he can make a shaft up that will mount to the CV yoke but has UJ's instead. 
2. If the noise remains, its either the NV247 or rear axle. Again, renew diff oils regardless and try again, if that still isn't working its most certainly the NV247.

Does that sound about right guys? I have already told MissusT about the issues, painted worse case picture for her  needless to say she isn't impressed 

 

Frosty, thanks for the offer. I may take you up on the offer if the above dont work. Just out of curiosity do you get any funny noises turning left and slow speeds and mid to full lock??? Mine is a 4.7 Powerflow (non-HO) with Quadradrive.

 

Jerry, thanks for the heads up on the CV joints. I had seen rebuild kits over £100 per end  That makes it a bit more economical to fix. 

 

Again thanks guys. Any other infor, not sure there is much more though V has been a superstar with everything he has posted. I'll let you know how i get on. If this rain stops i may drop the front shaft on Friday........ 

 

Here we go again 

 

hi Tazman, i don't get any noises from mine, mine is also a non Ho with Quadradrive. good luck finding the noise.

[V]

I agree, it's probably just a CV to replace.

[TazMann]

I still haven't found time to look at this  I'll get there.

[TazMann]

On 02/11/2020 at 13:11, AlexK said:

The 247's fluid requirements have confused many people over the years.  In fact, they even confused Jeep to begin with - early WJs had the wrong fluid from the factory and had to be recalled.

 

I have a vague recollection that it took some time for the new fluid to work its way entirely through the system.  Unless you were 100% confident the old fluid was correct, if the problem is relatively minor I'm tempted to suggest it might be worth putting a few miles on it before pulling everything apart again.

 

So AlexK said give it some time for the oil to work around the Transfer Box. took the Jeep to the local supermarket this Saturday just a short run really no more than 2 miles away so the box would have still been fairly cool by the time i got there. Guess what, the noise and the vibrations/graunching noise has drastically reduced. So it appears that I may have got to the bottom of the issue and that as Alex said, just takes a while for the fluid to actually get around the transfer box. 

 

I would recommend that anyone who has a 4.7 quadradrive or any quadradrive Jeep WJ/WK change their Transfer Box fluid sooner rather than later. Takes about 20mins to do and make sure you get the MOPAR fluid. Also just make sure you undo the fill plug first, if you can't get the fill plug out once the box is empty you are in trouble. 

 

I am just going to see how the WJ goes now over the next month or so 

[AlexK]

Excellent!  Might be worth doing another fluid change when you're confident the issue is resolved, just to ensure whatever was in the t-case before gets flushed out.

[TazMann]

29 minutes ago, AlexK said:

Excellent!  Might be worth doing another fluid change when you're confident the issue is resolved, just to ensure whatever was in the t-case before gets flushed out.

 

Alex that's exactly what I am planning on doing. Getting over the Winter with whats in there and then Spring i'll be doing another flush. Thanks for the heads up on giving it a little while to work its way through. Just need to be able to go out and play with it in Low Range now to make sure all areas are getting cleaned with new oil. 

[TazMann]

Well the work on the Jeep never stops. Well I suppose it did over the winter LOL 

Now we have a rough sounding rear axle. Time for a Axle oil change front and rear. A lot of investigation and I have opted to go with Motul GEAR Competition 75W-140 Racing Fully Synthetic Car Gearbox & Limited Slip Diff (LSD) Oil. No need for the MOPAR additive if its already included in the Oil is there. Went with the 75W-140 front and rear as more than likely the truck will end up towing this year and for towing the rear is recommended to be 75W-140 same as the front. 

 

The Dana 44 rear should take around 2.24L and the Dana 30 front should take around 1.18L according to the repair manual. 

 

A good clean out front and rear with brake cleaner should also help quieten the Diff down, otherwise its time for a replacement Diff I guess......... 

 

If this all works I am hoping I might make a few meets this year....... 

[spookie the aardvark]

Hope to see at some of the meets this year TazMann, time to compare WGs

[TazMann]

PDB I went with the Motul as it has the LSD additives in there already. So I am hoping this will help sort out the noisy diff. From what I have been reading the noise is the Friction Plates locking up the Diff at slow speed when it shouldn't be, so obviously there is a lack of friction modifier in the Oil. I guess that's what you get for taking it to a Jeep Stealership and asking them to do a full fluid change for you........... the oil has been in there for 2yrs and done less than 4,000 miles  Only reason I took it in was I didnt have time before I started a new job and the Jeep was used for a 150mile round trip every day. No longer doing that though. 

 

Spookie, All being well and given the Axles quieten down I will certainly try and make the Whitecliff event in September. Love it there, however  I will be avoiding muddy puddles........ I don't do driving through muddy puddles in quarry's anymore, they tend to block up radiators and cause overheating

[TazMann]

Well that was a cold morning spent working on the Rear Axle 

 

Only managed the rear due to time constraints, but it was also the axle making the most noise as well. So stripped the plate off and drained the gear oil. Still looking clean, but was very thick, very smelly and very sticky  Not sure why it was so tick to be honest. Now bearing in mind I had the local stealership change the Axle Oils early 2018 and since then its done less than 4,000miles the magnet in the Dana 44 plate was looking horrendous, to the point I thought we were in trouble . So onto the Diff. 

 

Everything is looking fine......  there is some very light scoring on the sun gears, we think that this is due to the LSD locking up at low speeds (when it shouldn't) so it seems we have caught it all in the nick of time. Cleaned it all out with about 3ltrs of brake cleaner in a spray bottle made sure to get as much of the muck out as possible. Cleaned the mating surfaces and put it all back together with the Motul Competition Gear Oil with LSD additive already in. A very nice blue colour, not that you will ever see it. To say this was a 75w140 it was nowhere near as thick as the cr@p that came out. also this actually felt like oil between your fingers, nothing sticky about it at all. A quick spin to get some lubrication around the diff and a few tight turns in the road and even though its not yet 100% a massive improvement. Need to get out and give it a good run getting everything up to temperature and the oil where it needs to be and try again. 

 

One thing I have now sworn is that no stealership will ever be allowed to do oil changes on any vehicle I own. 

 

Fingers crossed we saved the friction plates in the rear, but only time will tell now. Also i dont think the magnet had ever been cleaned. So with 65,000 miles on her i can accept that amount of fine metal LOL 

 

Just the front to go!

Edited April 10, 2021 by TazMann

[spookie the aardvark]

 

1 hour ago, TazMann said:

Well that was a cold morning spent working on the Rear Axle 

 

Only managed the rear due to time constraints, but it was also the axle making the most noise as well. So stripped the plate off and drained the gear oil. Still looking clean, but was very thick, very smelly and very sticky  Not sure why it was so tick to be honest. Now bearing in mind I had the local stealership change the Axle Oils early 2018 and since then its done less than 4,000miles the magnet in the Dana 44 plate was looking horrendous, to the point I thought we were in trouble . So onto the Diff. 

 

Everything is looking fine......  there is some very light scoring on the sun gears, we think that this is due to the LSD locking up at low speeds (when it shouldn't) so it seems we have caught it all in the nick of time. Cleaned it all out with about 3ltrs of brake cleaner in a spray bottle made sure to get as much of the muck out as possible. Cleaned the mating surfaces and put it all back together with the Motul Competition Gear Oil with LSD additive already in. A very nice blue colour, not that you will ever see it. To say this was a 75w140 it was nowhere near as thick as the cr@p that came out. also this actually felt like oil between your fingers, nothing sticky about it at all. A quick spin to get some lubrication around the diff and a few tight turns in the road and even though its not yet 100% a massive improvement. Need to get out and give it a good run getting everything up to temperature and the oil where it needs to be and try again. 

 

One thing I have now sworn is that no stealership will ever be allowed to do oil changes on any vehicle I own. 

 

Fingers crossed we saved the friction plates in the rear, but only time will tell now. Also i dont think the magnet had ever been cleaned. So with 65,000 miles on her i can accept that amount of fine metal LOL 

 

Just the front to go!

 

That's one of the reasons i wont let a stealership anywhere near mine and it only goes near a mechanic I trust now

[digger]

I'm sad to say my experience is that although some workshops  are very good '' they probably didn't do the oil change at all'' and if they did ''they probably put cheap rubbish in it. If you have a 'huge hedgehog' on the magnet it either hasn't been serviced  properly or you have a serious problem in that short a time.   Be suspicious of anyone who gets their oils out of a large barrel.  A common trick is to refill it with the cheapest stuff they can get. Only a couple of years ego I was in a ''race preparation workshop''  who were unlucky enough for me to spot them filling it. They were charging top dollar for it!

[TazMann]

16 hours ago, PDB said:

Have you checked the axle seals and breather Taz? Might explain the muck if water is getting in. I was alerted to my axle seals when I found grease on the inside of a wheel rim.

The seals and the breather are all fine. I know the breather is fine as its aftermarket ARB LOL Fitted after the Oil was meant to be changed. Seals are all good as no leaks around the hubs or the input shaft seal. So fingers crossed that will be ok. Unless the proper oil is now so thin it can escape 

 

15 hours ago, digger said:

I'm sad to say my experience is that although some workshops  are very good '' they probably didn't do the oil change at all'' and if they did ''they probably put cheap rubbish in it. If you have a 'huge hedgehog' on the magnet it either hasn't been serviced  properly or you have a serious problem in that short a time.   Be suspicious of anyone who gets their oils out of a large barrel.  A common trick is to refill it with the cheapest stuff they can get. Only a couple of years ego I was in a ''race preparation workshop''  who were unlucky enough for me to spot them filling it. They were charging top dollar for it!

The large hedgehog had certainly been there a while. The amount of fine debris on it would have suggested catastrophic failure within 4,000 miles to be honest. the smell and the consistency of the oil would lead me to agree that they never did the change at all. I just hope that the friction plates are ok now, otherwise it's a sun gear and friction plate change on the horizon. 

 

The only mechanics now allowed to work on the Jeep are Me and my Brother LOL though i think he mentioned that if the diff has to be changed I am on my own LOL I'll talk him around if i need too   

[TazMann]

Saturday morning was spent doing the Front Axle. same very thick and sticky oil was found in the front as well, along with another large hedgehog of swarf. Still on we pressed and got the diff cleaned up with plenty of brake cleaner. All looks remarkably good to be honest. No chipped teeth and very good wear patterns on all the gears. 

 

Next thing is to check all of the Wheel bearings and make sure I haven't got any issues there as there is still a strange rubbing/binding noise. However its no longer a metal on metal noise..... Lets see where we end up next LOL 

 

*not sure why the photos are 180 degrees rotated...... strange. show fine on my PC.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by TazMann