Platinum Member Black_box_jeep Posted March 10 Platinum Member Share Posted March 10 25 minutes ago, V said: A significant factor for tech in cars is that it can lead to earlier scrapping when the tech fails out of warranty. This can be years before any bodywork or mechanical issues condemn the vehicle. The EU has made it clear recently that they expect the maximum life expectancy of a vehicle to be 15 years. I suspect that the manufacturers are already building new products for a 7-10 year expiry. For many 21st century models there are a lack of repair specialists for car tech. Parts that are out of production cannot be replaced. Old used parts cannot be reused without special main-dealer-only software to re-authorise them to the the new car. This software (like Chrysler/Jeep DRBIII) is rarely made open source when it becomes obsolete. Older, serviceable vehicles that are still on the road need it for repair work but the manufacturers make it prohibitively expensive and difficult to obtain because of 'security reasons'. Yep, my daily driver/ works hack skoda is currently off the road as the side airbag crash sensor is faulty, so can’t pass an mot with the warning light on. The car is 20 years old, 150,000 miles. Still looks and drives well and has plenty of life left but due to age, replacement parts not available from skoda, and no aftermarket’s available due to licensing/ software etc. its the same platform As golf and Audi but different software/ systems so although the sensors are the same they need to be a specific version so having the same part number isn’t helpful, as there’s a different coding. Daft part is that lesser models didn’t have the side airbags so didn’t have the sensor/ wasn’t an issue. When available the sensor would be 65 quid but now scraps the car?? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted March 10 Platinum Member Share Posted March 10 The MoT only tests that the warning lamp extinguishes within 7 seconds. It doesn't test the air-bag as it's a single use item. The MoT fault is not the air-bag but the warning lamp staying on. It is a subtle difference. If the air-bag is CAN bus, you may just need a special message to be received by the air-bag controller. You would be really unlucky if the air-bag sends encrypted messages, it's probably just a single bit variation in plain text coding between models. A CAN bus sniffer on a working vehicle would give you message logs for start-up and running. Doing the same sniffing on your vehicle, you could compare logs to spot what was missing. With an Arduino and a few modules you can make and code your own message injector with or without an actual air-bag installed. https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/06/can_injection_attack_car_theft/ Sniffer software https://github.com/souravbaghz/Carpunk Hardware https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2019/11/27/introduction-to-can-bus-and-how-to-use-it-with-arduino/ It is not plug-n-play, you need to have some expertise with this stuff, but it should help with investigating a workaround. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Black_box_jeep Posted March 10 Platinum Member Share Posted March 10 53 minutes ago, V said: The MoT only tests that the warning lamp extinguishes within 7 seconds. It doesn't test the air-bag as it's a single use item. The MoT fault is not the air-bag but the warning lamp staying on. It is a subtle difference. If the air-bag is CAN bus, you may just need a special message to be received by the air-bag controller. You would be really unlucky if the air-bag sends encrypted messages, it's probably just a single bit variation in plain text coding between models. A CAN bus sniffer on a working vehicle would give you message logs for start-up and running. Doing the same sniffing on your vehicle, you could compare logs to spot what was missing. With an Arduino and a few modules you can make and code your own message injector with or without an actual air-bag installed. https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/06/can_injection_attack_car_theft/ Sniffer software https://github.com/souravbaghz/Carpunk Hardware https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2019/11/27/introduction-to-can-bus-and-how-to-use-it-with-arduino/ It is not plug-n-play, you need to have some expertise with this stuff, but it should help with investigating a workaround. As per my post, the crash sensor is the fault, not the air bag. The warning light is on as a result of the crash sensor being at fault. The warning light does not go out because there is a fault and therefore it will not pass the MOT. I’ve tried a bypass and it was not effective. I’ve had a specialist investigate the issue and has tested the system with various sensors from other vehicles that are known good but apparently the sensors and control module are matched which was fine when the various options were available off the shelf but now not so simple. They have tried to program the crash sensor out of play but I guess as it’s a safety feature, it seems that isn’t possible either. it was just to highlight that the support for the tech and the life of vehicles is not there. At a previous place of work you could almost guarantee what would be required on certain vehicles by its age or mileage just because they seemed to have a point where the temptation to trade in rather than spend to repair was in the balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted March 11 Platinum Member Share Posted March 11 Can u not remove the warning light! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Black_box_jeep Posted March 12 Platinum Member Share Posted March 12 On 11/03/2024 at 13:48, digger said: Can u not remove the warning light! It’s a displayed message as well as the warning light so unfortunately not. (Believe me, I had looked into it by now) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted March 12 Platinum Member Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Black_box_jeep said: It’s a displayed message as well as the warning light so unfortunately not. (Believe me, I had looked into it by now) Duck tape to hide it? lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Surfer Posted March 13 Platinum Member Share Posted March 13 11 hours ago, Black_box_jeep said: It’s a displayed message as well as the warning light so unfortunately not. (Believe me, I had looked into it by now) Isn't the warning an advisory and not a fail? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Raakhee Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 Oddly enough my husband and I were talking about the change in technology last night. Brought on by us hearing an advert about your landlines changing to VOIP. Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), is a technology that allows you to make voice calls using a broadband Internet connection instead of a regular (or analog) phone line. So in the case of a cyber security incident that renders electronics useless, we would not even have basic communications due to no longer having analogue telephones. Also. we watched the move "Leave the World Behind" the day before and it basically showed a scenario of what happens when we become to reliant on Technology. Ethan Hawke's character admitting that without the internet he basically is a useless father. This is where we are heading. Oh and the Tesla scene in the movie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Surfer Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 10 minutes ago, Raakhee said: Oddly enough my husband and I were talking about the change in technology last night. Brought on by us hearing an advert about your landlines changing to VOIP. Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), is a technology that allows you to make voice calls using a broadband Internet connection instead of a regular (or analog) phone line. So in the case of a cyber security incident that renders electronics useless, we would not even have basic communications due to no longer having analogue telephones. Also. we watched the move "Leave the World Behind" the day before and it basically showed a scenario of what happens when we become to reliant on Technology. Ethan Hawke's character admitting that without the internet he basically is a useless father. This is where we are heading. Oh and the Tesla scene in the movie We would have a problem with VOIP going by the past couple of months when we have had power breaks lasting a couple of hours. The joys of living in the countryside. LOL! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 57 minutes ago, Raakhee said: Oddly enough my husband and I were talking about the change in technology last night. Brought on by us hearing an advert about your landlines changing to VOIP. Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), is a technology that allows you to make voice calls using a broadband Internet connection instead of a regular (or analog) phone line. So in the case of a cyber security incident that renders electronics useless, we would not even have basic communications due to no longer having analogue telephones. Also. we watched the move "Leave the World Behind" the day before and it basically showed a scenario of what happens when we become to reliant on Technology. Ethan Hawke's character admitting that without the internet he basically is a useless father. This is where we are heading. Oh and the Tesla scene in the movie Its OK - we drive Jeeps and have CB radios LOL 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 Can this be true? :- ''Taking a moment too long to look at the dashboard's center screen triggers a car to display a "Look at the road" icon, accompanied by lights designed to redirect the driver's gaze forward. This scenario, tested in Forvia's equipment laboratory, will soon become a common feature for drivers. Starting July 7, 2024, every new car model manufactured in Europe is required to include a system capable of directly detecting drivers' distraction and drowsiness levels. This mandate comes under the European regulation known as "GSR2" ("General Safety Regulation 2")''. First, I must say I'm a supporter of eliminating over tired drivers! However, I know I'm rather thick but my interpretation of the above based on my recent experience is :- ''Look at screen, take far longer than a knob to do a simple task, be interrupted to look at dash display, have lights shone in your eyes, eventually return to road view!'' Who is kidding who? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Tony Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 Turns out the jag driver is being done for dangerous driving! I doubt there was anything wrong with the car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Surfer Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 55 minutes ago, Tony said: Turns out the jag driver is being done for dangerous driving! I doubt there was anything wrong with the car. it was the driver that phoned the police so unsure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTJ Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 6 hours ago, Raakhee said: Oddly enough my husband and I were talking about the change in technology last night. Brought on by us hearing an advert about your landlines changing to VOIP. Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), is a technology that allows you to make voice calls using a broadband Internet connection instead of a regular (or analog) phone line. So in the case of a cyber security incident that renders electronics useless, we would not even have basic communications due to no longer having analogue telephones. Also. we watched the move "Leave the World Behind" the day before and it basically showed a scenario of what happens when we become to reliant on Technology. Ethan Hawke's character admitting that without the internet he basically is a useless father. This is where we are heading. Oh and the Tesla scene in the movie Think I'll give the movie a go. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member AlexK Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 3 hours ago, digger said: Can this be true? It's worse than that. If you do a shoulder-check before switching lanes on a motorway or, you know, look to your right before pulling out from a junction, that can be enough to set it off. Might as well have made it law for everyone to wear blinkers. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 Hi Alex, Gordon Bennett, how awful! I agree with you completely. My experience is that ex or current M/cycle riders are often very good drivers because on a bike, if they are not, they don't last very long. One of the things I have observed is that they are also the people who habitually 'shoulder check'' including me. To not do so means that you risk blind spot collisions every day at high or low speed. As for not looking in every direction when exiting a junction, they must be nuts! Is this anything to do with the increasing number of 'drivers' who do not stop at junctions or have they grown plain lazy because of tech taking over for them? I suspect the rot started decades ago when they did away with 'Halt,major road ahead' signs and changed to 'Give Way'' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted March 14 Platinum Member Share Posted March 14 7 hours ago, Tony said: Turns out the jag driver is being done for dangerous driving! I doubt there was anything wrong with the car. It's probably simpler to prosecute the driver as everyone will then believe that the car model is not faulty. JLR can then quietly rush out a software patch or swap out hardware during servicing without making a public fuss. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted March 15 Platinum Member Share Posted March 15 14 hours ago, V said: It's probably simpler to prosecute the driver as everyone will then believe that the car model is not faulty. JLR can then quietly rush out a software patch or swap out hardware during servicing without making a public fuss. Exactly ! The power of big companies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Raakhee Posted March 15 Platinum Member Share Posted March 15 Seems JLR will be discontinuing the I-Pace. I wonder why 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTJ Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, Raakhee said: Seems JLR will be discontinuing the I-Pace. I wonder why First, that news is a year old now. Second, rather disingenuous to imply it is because of problems with it as an EV. Jaguar is stopping production of ALL current models and will relaunch as an EV only brand in 2025. It is part of a JLR strategy that will likely see Jaguar move further up market as it dumps all the ‘cheapo’ brand diluting models. Helpful article here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Raakhee Posted March 15 Platinum Member Share Posted March 15 10 minutes ago, UKTJ said: First, that news is a year old now. Second, rather disingenuous to imply it is because of problems with it as an EV. Jaguar is stopping production of ALL current models and will relaunch as an EV only brand in 2025. It is part of a JLR strategy that will likely see Jaguar move further up market as it dumps all the ‘cheapo’ brand diluting models. Helpful article here. Yeah I read that article but makes you wonder if they detected issues with this model early on. Also wondering how the guy got arrested for dangerous driving when he said the vehicle failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTJ Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Raakhee said: Yeah I read that article but makes you wonder if they detected issues with this model early on. Also wondering how the guy got arrested for dangerous driving when he said the vehicle failed. So JLR decided to retire their entire model line up to cover up a problem that had never been an issue in the real world? Keep digging He has been arrested because the vehicle was checked by JLR, Police and DVSA. They concluded he was not being truthful. Who would have thought it, somebody caught committing a crime lies about not having done it. Must be the first time that has ever happened. Edited March 15 by UKTJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted March 15 Platinum Member Share Posted March 15 I had a mysterious electronic problem with my XJ today. I drove into town and parked in the high street. When I returned to my Jeep it would not start. The console warning lamps came on one time when the ignition key was turned, but after that, all electricals were dead. No further response from trying to start with the key. The battery appeared to be dead, but it's own charge indicator was showing it was fully charged. Thirty minutes later the Jeep started perfectly but my trip odometer had reset itself to zero. A peculiar electronics problem that I am now concerned about with no evidence of any DTC being stored. I was parked in a time limited space, but now I cannot prove that I broke down there because I drove away successfully. I called the AA when the fault occurred and then cancelled the call-out later when I got the engine running, but did I do that to just wriggle out of a possible parking offence? I did not. But I cannot prove that. I doubt that Jeep, the Police or DVSA would be able to find evidence of my Cherokee's failure to start. The only witness I have is Helen, who decided to walk home and leave me to wait for the AA. If a fault is ephemeral, and there are no systems to log it's occurrence, there's not much to look for if the fault cannot be repeated. It's interesting that just like in the recent Post Office scandal, that the accused can acquire no evidence for their defence but the manufacturer can be believed without question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTJ Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, V said: I had a mysterious electronic problem with my XJ today. I drove into town and parked in the high street. When I returned to my Jeep it would not start. The console warning lamps came on one time when the ignition key was turned, but after that, all electricals were dead. No further response from trying to start with the key. The battery appeared to be dead, but it's own charge indicator was showing it was fully charged. Thirty minutes later the Jeep started perfectly but my trip odometer had reset itself to zero. A peculiar electronics problem that I am now concerned about with no evidence of any DTC being stored. I was parked in a time limited space, but now I cannot prove that I broke down there because I drove away successfully. I called the AA when the fault occurred and then cancelled the call-out later when I got the engine running, but did I do that to just wriggle out of a possible parking offence? I did not. But I cannot prove that. I doubt that Jeep, the Police or DVSA would be able to find evidence of my Cherokee's failure to start. The only witness I have is Helen, who decided to walk home and leave me to wait for the AA. If a fault is ephemeral, and there are no systems to log it's occurrence, there's not much to look for if the fault cannot be repeated. It's interesting that just like in the recent Post Office scandal, that the accused can acquire no evidence for their defence but the manufacturer can be believed without question. Just JLR, maybe, but the Police and DVSA. What is more likely, an individual trying to avoid a conviction or a conspiracy across multiple UK agencies to protect an Indian owned car maker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTJ Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 On 14/03/2024 at 10:55, Raakhee said: Oddly enough my husband and I were talking about the change in technology last night. Brought on by us hearing an advert about your landlines changing to VOIP. Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), is a technology that allows you to make voice calls using a broadband Internet connection instead of a regular (or analog) phone line. So in the case of a cyber security incident that renders electronics useless, we would not even have basic communications due to no longer having analogue telephones. Also. we watched the move "Leave the World Behind" the day before and it basically showed a scenario of what happens when we become to reliant on Technology. Ethan Hawke's character admitting that without the internet he basically is a useless father. This is where we are heading. Oh and the Tesla scene in the movie I watched it, thought it was very good. Any other recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.