Petition to exempt out of production vehicles from type approval requirements

[V]

I’ve made a petition on the government's petition website – will you sign it?

 

I need five signatures to get this petition off the ground. I think it will make a difference to anyone that owns and maintains a vehicle that was registered in the UK from 1 March 2001. There are certain parts on cars that must be EU type approved to receive a UK MOT pass. If these parts are no longer available new or extremely hard to find used, or used parts are all just as bad as the one you need to replace. A type approval exemption will mean you can have a towbar on your modern classic, you can fit a generic hi-flow catalytic converter, and you can remove the 20 year old air-bags that could go off at anytime, and still pass an MOT.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/637693

 

My petition:

Grant type approval exemptions for vehicles that have ceased production.

Many vehicle manufacturers produce vehicles with components that are unique to that model. When the vehicle ceases production, manufacturing of model specific parts often ceases too. The legal requirement to remain type approved should end when production ends. This would avoid premature scrapping.

 

Many serviceable vehicles are scrapped at great cost to their owners and the environment because certain type approved model specific parts are no longer available new E.g. Air-bags, catalytic converters, headlamp units. The list of parts potentially includes every vehicle component either as individual parts or as assemblies. Owners should have the freedom of choice to repair their older vehicle with alternative components or component removal that would still enable the vehicle to pass an MOT.

Edited May 24, 2023 by V

[tedthefed]

Signed 

[jerryg]

Signed.

[UKTJ]

1 hour ago, V said:

I’ve made a petition on the government's petition website – will you sign it?

 

I need five signatures to get this petition off the ground. I think it will make a difference to anyone that owns and maintains a vehicle that was registered in the UK from 1 March 2001. There are certain parts on cars that must be EU type approved to receive a UK MOT pass. If these parts are no longer available new or extremely hard to find used, or used parts are all just as bad as the one you need to replace. A type approval exemption will mean you can have a towbar on your modern classic, you can fit a generic hi-flow catalytic converter, and you can remove the 20 year old air-bags that could go off at anytime, and still pass an MOT.

 

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/637237/sponsors/new?token=b4iZVGj33c0XRkdiQ3LH

 

Once I have five supporters, I think the link changes so I will edit it later when it does.

 

My petition:

Grant type approval exemptions for vehicles that have ceased production.

Many vehicle manufacturers produce vehicles with components that are unique to that model. When the vehicle ceases production, manufacturing of model specific parts often ceases too. The legal requirement to remain type approved should end when production ends. This would avoid premature scrapping.

 

Many serviceable vehicles are scrapped at great cost to their owners and the environment because certain type approved model specific parts are no longer available new E.g. Air-bags, catalytic converters, headlamp units. The list of parts potentially includes every vehicle component either as individual parts or as assemblies. Owners should have the freedom of choice to repair their older vehicle with alternative components or component removal that would still enable the vehicle to pass an MOT.

Happy to sign, but what is the relevance of the March 2001 date?  I declare a vested interest as my out of production TJ is a 2002.

[V]

In 2011 the EU forced the British government to backdate a number of type approval requirements into law. This was very unusual as it should have just brought into scope vehicles registered in 2011 and later. Cars from 2001 that had already been repaired with brand new non-type approved parts were now technically MOT failures if the inspector noticed the difference. My 2001 XJ has a number of these parts that cannot be legally replaced as the manufacturer's part stock exhausted prior to 2011. The recent JK post on exhausted component supply just highlighted to me that the problem affects all vehicles made since 2001, not just those caught between 2001 and 2011.

[digger]

Done!

[JimC]

Signed

[jerryg]

'V' - can you specify which 'certain parts' are covered by this? I have replaced many 'serviceable' items sourced from fleabay and elsewhere. 

My regular MOT inspector hasn't picked up on any yet.

Is the 2001 date a typo by some idiot bureaucrat who meant to type 2011? Just a thought!

[V]

The most critical part is usually the catalytic converter which has to show the type approval number or the OEM part number.

 

No they deliberately wanted to back date to 2001. The EU tried to ban modified vehicles across the union but failed in the UK. After 10 years, they thought they would have another shot at harmonisation. I believe on 1 March 2001 the EU version of OBD2 (EOBD) became mandatory so they pushed the UK into backdating to a point in time where all new vehicles were sold with EOBD to enforce emissions standards and the CO2 charging regime.

 

The next stage was to outlaw tampering but the UK left the EU. The civil service have been unsuccessful trying to introduce this so far. If anti-tampering ever becomes law in the UK your car effectively becomes scrap as soon as the manufacturer ceases production. It can only continue to be used while it is running on original parts. As soon as the OEM spares stock is exhausted your vehicle cannot be legally repaired with non-genuine parts that do not comply with type approval. By exempting all out of production vehicles from type approval requirements anti-tampering for that model will cease to apply when production ends. Most MOT inspectors don't care as long as the vehicle passes emissions.

 

At the moment there are a few specific parts that must carry type approval numbers. The older the vehicle the fewer the parts, but I believe it now includes the digital trackers that the EU mandated in 2018. I believe that whatever date the EU made a system mandatory for all cars, that system and it's components are covered by a type approval requirement. There are a load of mandatory type approved systems on modern cars.

 

I think tow bars are probably the most obvious of the type approval laws. The tow bars fitted to cars after 1997 have to be type approved. This is OK when manufacturers think they can sell them. But when they cease production years before you acquire a used vehicle and want one, you can't get one. If you fit a used tow bar it must have the original type approval plate or sticker visible to remain approved.

Edited April 26, 2023 by V

[UKTJ]

Just one thought @V, is “model” clearly defined legally?  For example, does the law distinguish between a JK model Wrangler and a JL model Wrangler, or does it simply see them as the Wrangler model?  Do things like mid-life refreshes confuse matters, such as is just happening on the JL?

 

Just thought it is worth trying to avoid a situation where this gains traction but the civil servants say it is unworkable due to a lack of legal clarity.

[V]

The law is EU. It only considers a vehicle to be legitimate if it has a European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) number. This is why the JL Wranglers had to be recalled as they technically were not legal to drive in the UK and EU without the number that someone forgot to attach to them. The Model and trim are irrelevant, its the approval number that counts.

 

Strangely, some car models can look very different externally and internally yet still have the same type approval number. The VW Up! had the same ECWVTA number as the Seat and Skoda versions despite having different lights and bumpers and steering wheel shapes.

 

UK Construction and Use Regulations used to be the only law that governed what it was named for. Now there are hundreds of separate EU regulations that cascade from it and from international treaties that our government and civil service were trusted to negotiate in our favour but didn't.

[UKTJ]

2 hours ago, V said:

The law is EU. It only considers a vehicle to be legitimate if it has a European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) number. This is why the JL Wranglers had to be recalled as they technically were not legal to drive in the UK and EU without the number that someone forgot to attach to them. The Model and trim are irrelevant, its the approval number that counts.

 

Strangely, some car models can look very different externally and internally yet still have the same type approval number. The VW Up! had the same ECWVTA number as the Seat and Skoda versions despite having different lights and bumpers and steering wheel shapes.

 

UK Construction and Use Regulations used to be the only law that governed what it was named for. Now there are hundreds of separate EU regulations that cascade from it and from international treaties that our government and civil service were trusted to negotiate in our favour but didn't.

So a JK would have a different ECWVTA number to a JL or a post March 2001 TJ, but all JKs would have the same ECWVTA number?

 

I guess if multiple vehicles from same manufacturer group have same ECWVTA then all the Type Approved parts must be common.  Also, raises a further concern in my mind about using a LHD imported part from the US, even if identicle to the RHD part could it be that it would not be deemed Type Approved, if for example it did not have the UK part number stamped on it.  I wonder if it is possible to find out all the Type Approved parts attached to a specific ECWVTA.

Edited April 27, 2023 by UKTJ

[V]

I would expect a 2-door JL to have a different approval number to a 4-door JL if they are crash tested as different vehicles. Although I wouldn't be surprised if one is just a variant of the other. It's just bureaucracy and I'm not interested enough to find out what the EVWVTA numbers are. I guess if anyone is reading this and has a copy of their Jeep's EU Certificate of Conformity (CoC) we could compare numbers with sufficent certificates for each type. Perhaps there is a registry somewhere?

 

The CoC is just another pointless piece of paper that costs a ridiculous amount of money to obtain when you need to import or export an EU spec vehicle. It's pointless because the process of getting a V5 on a brand new vehicle requires proof that the manufacturer provides to DVLA. Once it has been proven a vehicle has ECWVTA surely the V5 counts as evidence thereafter? Not so for the EU. You have to go back to the manufacturer to buy a new certificate that amongst other things shows the relationship between the VIN number and the ECWVTA. In Switzerland, modifications to a vehicle invalidate the ECWVTA unless you have a certificate of conformity for each modification.

 

Going by these stupid rules on vehicles you would think that applying the same process to UK drivers needing an EU driving licence they would need to show proof of passing their driving test. They don't, the DVLA records are good enough for driving licenses but not good enough for re-registrations.

[jerryg]

I suppose when Greta  and the green brigade and the EU eventually wean us off ICE vehicles by fair means or foul and we are back to horse and carts they will want type approvals for them!!

Edited April 27, 2023 by jerryg

[frosty]

signed

[digger]

12 hours ago, jerryg said:

I suppose when Greta  and the green brigade and the EU eventually wean us off ICE vehicles by fair means or foul and we are back to horse and carts they will want type approvals for them!!

Its all part of the 'lets give our mates in the XYZ industry ' a boost in my view.

I attended various  courses run by Jaguar/Triumph in the late 60s early 70s. The trainers were openly telling the attendees to get as many cars off the road as possible by failing them with the new MOT(DOT!). They explained how every car that went off the road meant that the owner had to replace it and so on right up until another new car was sold!

 

[V]

Digger kindly forwarded to me the government's rejection of my petition. They couldn't be bothered to notify me that it had been rejected.

 

Quote

 

Sorry, we can’t accept the petition you supported – “Grant type approval exemptions for vehicles that have ceased production.”.

It’s not clear what the petition is asking the UK Government or Parliament to do.

Petitions need to call on the Government or Parliament to take a specific action. Type approval for vehicles does not prevent owners from repairing their vehicles with components that have not been produced by the original manufacturer, provided this does not make the car unsafe to drive, so we're not sure what you want the Government or Parliament to do.

 

 

They clearly don't know about the replacement of catalytic converters, HID and LED headlamps or the removal of air-bags when it comes to MOT. If your catalytic converter is out of production it cannot be replaced with another unless it is SPECIFICALLY type approved as a replacement.

The Motor Vehicles (Replacement of Catalytic Converters and Pollution Control Devices) Regulations 2009

 

I guess I have to find each individual piece of EU law and do a separate petition for every one of them.

 

The MOT inspection manual says:

 

Quote

 

8.2.1.1. Exhaust emission control equipment

You only need to check components that are visible and identifiable, such as catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, and exhaust gas recirculation valves.

You should reject all vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2002, where original emissions control equipment components are missing, obviously modified or obviously defective.

Vehicles used prior to 1 September 2002 should only be rejected, where a full catalyst test could apply. Use the flowcharts 1, 2 and 3 to decide which emission test is applicable for the vehicle being tested.

 

 

At some point in time since I last checked, the date has changed from 1 March 2001 to 1 September 2002. My March 2001 XJ is now in the clear!

As one of the last Cherokees to be built to EU type approval in RHD form it was originally equipped with a 2.5" dia catalytic converter and matching pre-cat eliminator down pipe. It is now fitted with a non-EU approved 2.5" Federal specification catalytic converter and down pipes from a LHD 4.0L Grand Cherokee WJ. The OEM catalytic converter was produced in such small numbers that they disappeared from stock globally in 2011. The nearest equivalent was some US Police spec WJ part. My MOT tester is a reasonable guy. The cat is buried under my Jeep's after-market belly pan and the front section which is visible is always covered in mud on MOT day. It passes the emissions test just fine.

 

My cat doesn't look obviously modified but it is a modification that would not comply with the The Motor Vehicles (Replacement of Catalytic Converters and Pollution Control Devices) Regulations 2009 8.1.a.ii IF my Jeep hadn't been to the USA twice before the law was made and had a new Federal cat fitted.

 

The point of the petition still stands. Vehicles built to EU spec and registered in the UK on or after 1 March 2001 can only have a replacement type approved catalytic converter even if such a thing is no longer made or sold.

[V]

The rejection is stupid. The catalytic converter law goes a lot further than just cats...

 

Quote

 

(3) In this regulation “non-type approved converter or device” means—

(a)a catalytic converter,

(b)an assembly of catalytic converters,

(c)a pollution control device, or

(d)an assembly of pollution control devices,

 

 

So if your Jeep needs for example a new Charcoal Canister or a new Canister Purge Solenoid Valve these are now also covered under the EU type approval requirement for replacement parts.

[V]

The 2nd attempt at the petition was accepted. The link has been updated on the first post. If you want to support it you can click the link below.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/637693