Platinum Member Fourpot Posted February 23, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 23, 2022 The wife finally got rid of her Smart car which I didn't like at all and bought a recent used Renault Zoe (top spec, 50kwh (135bhp), 200+ miles range). I drove it today and it's the first time I've driven a pure EV (I've driven a Toyota hybrid and wasn't so impressed - a long motorway trip though). I have to say I absolutely love it! It's such fun to drive. Now don't get me wrong, driving a snarling v8 is FUN! Driving an EV seems to be a different fun.. like the difference between sailing and motorcycling. It's actually very like driving a quiet smooth automatic. Doubtless Jeep is already on the way with one, they need to catch up with Rivian, Tesla et al. I'm looking forward to it. Won't be able to afford one anymore than I could afford any new Jeep. But I am even more keen to convert my XJ to EV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted February 23, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 23, 2022 How much do you want for the stroker? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludders Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 If I can offer some advice, it's French, occasionally for no apparent reason it will need a rest, eg a glass of wine & a croissant. When it does, disconnect the 12v battery for 10 minutes. Oh and don't let the range get to less than 10miles, there's a software glitch that can throw the on board charger into a wobbler! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member BLUE STAR Posted February 24, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 So how much for a battery replacement on one of those ? Read an article recently about someone who bought a Merc hybrid 4 years old, (£24K ?) ran it for a further 4 years and needed new battery, at £15,000 plus £200 an hour to fit. Car by then wasn't worth that ... so I read. Surely these EV's are going to devalue worse than a 2nd hand computer & become a disposable item ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Fourpot Posted February 24, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 hours ago, BLUE STAR said: So how much for a battery replacement on one of those ? Read an article recently about someone who bought a Merc hybrid 4 years old, (£24K ?) ran it for a further 4 years and needed new battery, at £15,000 plus £200 an hour to fit. Car by then wasn't worth that ... so I read. Surely these EV's are going to devalue worse than a 2nd hand computer & become a disposable item ? It has an 8 year battery warranty, by which time she'll have sold it. 6.5 years left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Fourpot Posted February 24, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 18 hours ago, V said: How much do you want for the stroker? Hmm, now that is a good question. My plan is to commence conversion by the end of 2025, by which time there should be further advances in batteries and motors and lower prices too. Also hydrogen may feature in DIY conversions by then. Infrastructures will also have improved. I also want to enjoy driving the Jeep with its 4.6 heart for a while, having gone to all the trouble of building and installing it. But having just bought a 'splash and dash' half tank for £1.79.9 a litre, the temptation of 5p a mile instead of 40p a mile is huge! So not sure I want to sell it just yet. But tempt me with a figure for: Engine and all ancillaries, auto gearbox, entire cooling system, entire fuel system, entire exhaust and engine electrics? (I'm keeping the transfer case, 12v battery and probably the steering pump) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Fourpot Posted February 24, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Ludders said: If I can offer some advice, it's French, occasionally for no apparent reason it will need a rest, eg a glass of wine & a croissant. When it does, disconnect the 12v battery for 10 minutes. Oh and don't let the range get to less than 10miles, there's a software glitch that can throw the on board charger into a wobbler! When it needs rest, wine and croissant, it won't be sooner than I will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted February 24, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Fourpot said: the temptation of 5p a mile instead of 40p a mile is huge! I will be installing a Vialle LiquidSi Liquid LPG injection systems to both of my XJs soon. One XJ has been on LPG for 21 years and it's time for an upgrade. Liquid LPG injection usually improves torque and bhp over petrol and has less under bonnet kit than vaporised LPG installations. I can get my fuel costs down to 15p-20p per mile on current retail prices. Sadly, I have no local LPG refuelling stations locally. Undeterred, I have looked into the cost of leasing a cashless unmanned LPG refuelling skid and I now just have to find a good commercial location that will sub-lease me sufficient space for refuelling with local authority approval. The profit margin on LPG is a lot larger than on petrol. Assuming the value of my sales exceed my operating costs, the profit after tax would effectively offset my personal refuelling costs. The profit from a good refuelling location could level out my personal fuel spend to as low as 0p/mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisby Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I drive a Tesla model S as my daily driver and have had one previously back in 2013 when the first came out. EV’s are great if you can live with the limited range and get your head round on the road charging. When I had my first one it was difficult due to limited charging points but I always managed. Now with a Tesla supercharger round every corner things are simple. Other networks are popping up for other EV’s at a rate of knots so the whole country is easily accessible with planning. I charge at home on my home charger for 4 hours overnight when we get a 4p per KWH window in our tarrif and then 3 hours at my office where it’s free (We’ll the company pays the bill) This suffices for my 200 miles round trip commute each day. So very cheap motoring! And they hold their money like you would believe at the minute ! I’m not sure if I’d want a EV Wrangler though……. especially as I often dunk mine into so serious water depths . However if the come up with a full EV Grand Cherokee then the might be the wife’s replacement for her Compass in a couple of years . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted February 24, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 24, 2022 Chrisby, Do you know how many charge cycles your Tesla batteries can withstand before serious degradation? Are you currently top-up charging twice per day, 12 charge cycles per week? I have been told that Tesla's battery management scheme can support 1500 charge cycles before degradation. I don't know if this is true. If it is, I estimate that your Tesla battery will last 2.5 years before degradation, more with less top-ups. It would be interesting to find out how well the Tesla battery management can deal with top-up charge cycles and how soon range degradation occurs. I wonder if recharge anxiety will cause premature degradation of EV batteries like it already does in mobile phones. I don't think this is something that the initial lease holders will often experience and I'm wondering if cell replacement is being done on the quiet by EV manufacturers to rejuvenate partially spent battery packs with say 30% new cells before they go out for another lease. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisby Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 The battery has a unlimited 8 year warranty and by the time that’s up it will be long gone from my ownership. I’m very stringent with my charging and only charge to 80% as recommended on a daily bases. Just on 36000 miles so I guess that’s around 400 charges so far. It went into Tesla for a recall just before Christmas and the health check came back with the battery health of 98% not sure the meaning of this but seems like a good number to me given the miles. I have a friend with 200k+ on his and still going strong. I will likely replace mine well before 100k so I’m not too worried given the miles some are getting without issues. Also now there are companies repairing and re-cycling batteries so I’m sure out of warranty scary pricing is slowing being resolved and I’m sure Tesla themselves have been replacing cells on the quiet over the years to ensure that there are no significant number of bad press stories about the batteries. I know two or three guys Who have had full battery replacements under warranty whether or not these were actual replacements or they just fixed the battery packs I’m not sure but it Makes sense for the manufacturer to refurbish rather than replace even if it is done on the quiet. I’ll Make a point of asking one of the service guys at Tesla in regards to the 1500 charge cycles and see what they say my guess is they will say that is dependent on charging routine type of charger et cetera 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Surfer Posted February 27, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 27, 2022 IMHO an EV is a fad at the moment and can be environmentally damaging due to the way the minerals are mined for the batteries. Not sure of a solution, but maybe hydrogen is the way forward once we find a way to extract it economically. Maybe current ICE engines can be converted to run on hydrogen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member BLUE STAR Posted February 27, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 27, 2022 5 hours ago, Surfer said: IMHO an EV is a fad at the moment and can be environmentally damaging due to the way the minerals are mined for the batteries. Not sure of a solution, but maybe hydrogen is the way forward once we find a way to extract it economically. Maybe current ICE engines can be converted to run on hydrogen? Last I read, Hydrogen production is mainly from Natural gas, taking between 9 - 13 tons, depending on quality, to produce 1 ton of it. So what's the point & where's all the 'fossil fuel' & associated CO2 saving ? Don't hold your breath for it to be produced by surplus wind Lithium batteries when played out will go to landfill (may be able to extract 5 kilos or so of lithium salt before hand, but I wonder at what cost), along with all those potentially toxic solar panels, plus turbine blades. Imagine 30 - 40 million played out lithium batteries in the UK alone, from EV's every 8+ years, where will they go ? The waste from what is currently called 'Green' will be enormous & unsustainable. What will that do to the water table I wonder ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Surfer Posted February 27, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, BLUE STAR said: Imagine 30 - 40 million played out lithium batteries in the UK alone, from EV's every 8+ years, where will they go ? The waste from what is currently called 'Green' will be enormous & unsustainable. What will that do to the water table I wonder ? I honestly don't think any of the above has been taken into consideration. TBH I would be very wary of buying a second hand EV without a warranty that the battery would last at least 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald F Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 hours ago, BLUE STAR said: Last I read, Hydrogen production is mainly from Natural gas, taking between 9 - 13 tons, depending on quality, to produce 1 ton of it. So what's the point & where's all the 'fossil fuel' & associated CO2 saving ? Don't hold your breath for it to be produced by surplus wind There is an EV charge point not far from here which is run on tidal power, and the next island along is using tidal power to produce hydrogen, though both units are still in the experimental stage. We have a surplus of wind, tide and seawater, so all "raw materials" are free. It just needs more time and more money, and less opposition from the vested interests of current technology. In the 1960s, the nuclear industry falsified data about the relative efficiency of wind and wave power, stultifying their development, and the fossil fuel industry is only now being moved by the groundswell of public opinion into being less opposed to EVs and Hydrogen fuelled vehicles. Exciting times, and there are alternatives to current battery technology on the horizon. Exciting times ahead, and I suspect that electric vehicles will reign supreme for off road use because of their technical advantages; they will be harder for the anti-green laning brigade to object to, as well. I'd love to try out a Rivian, though at present, any expedition would need to tow a generator to travel more than half a day from town. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted February 27, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 27, 2022 28 minutes ago, Gerald F said: I suspect that electric vehicles will reign supreme for off road use because of their technical advantages; they will be harder for the anti-green laning brigade to object to If the antis are successful extinguishing vehicular rights from all byways this year, EVs wont make any difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member BLUE STAR Posted February 28, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 28, 2022 Gerald F "Exciting times, and there are alternatives to current battery technology on the horizon" If and when we get there will be the time for change, instead of Govt & rent seeking billionaires currently fleecing / punishing the public in both taxes and subsidies. Its now costing extra £billions a year to balance the National Grid when the wind doesn't blow. I wonder will it be better to bury the lithium batteries & solar panels above or below the turbine blades ? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10558375/TOM-LEONARD-Graveyard-green-giants.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Fourpot Posted February 28, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted February 28, 2022 No-one will be putting lithium batteries into landfill, (except from mobile phones, laptops and the thousand other things that nobody has worried about that use Lion batteries). I agree totally with Gerald F. The time to change is now. I spend ages working with young people and with the wind industry. The absolute incontrovertible need is there, the desire is there, the tech is there, just the final few hurdles to overcome, not to quit because of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member BLUE STAR Posted February 28, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 28, 2022 33 minutes ago, Fourpot said: No-one will be putting lithium batteries into landfill, (except from mobile phones, laptops and the thousand other things that nobody has worried about that use Lion batteries). I agree totally with Gerald F. The time to change is now. I spend ages working with young people and with the wind industry. The absolute incontrovertible need is there, the desire is there, the tech is there, just the final few hurdles to overcome, not to quit because of. Its still just a debatable point I guess, but in the event of the country being forced to going totally EV where would all those batteries actually end up then (exported to Asia in containers again) and where will the power come from to charge them, as wind is notoriously unreliable and heavily subsidised, plus having to keep gas, coal & diesel powered stations on standby at massive costs when tenders go out to them, to quickly jump in to balance the grid to stop it crashing when the wind drops ? Trying to run a modern society with steel plants, manufacturing etc on off grid technology isn't going to work no matter how much you want it to. When they actually come up with a 'flux capacitor' for my Wrangler, then I will be a believer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member TimC Posted February 28, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 28, 2022 It’s not the flux capacitor you need, it’s the compact cold fusion reactor, so it can run on old banana skins 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Volant165 Posted February 28, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted February 28, 2022 I often say if Nike was caught still using child labour they would be a huge social media hashtag uproar. But, so far it is ok for the Congo to help harvest rare earth to power a Prius using it. Better battery technology needs to be rolled out to the masses now, not later. Also, EV drivers deserve to know the truth, the road tax needs to be spread onto those vehicles now. Not as a trap in a few years from now so we can calculate true cost per mile of ownership. £30+ billon in combustion engine road tax revenue will not go away, the government will reassign it. Having said that, I have ordered a run around EV and solar panel/battery system for the house. I will think of them as I run my CO2 loving Hellcat Jeep at Santa Pod in a month. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Surfer Posted March 1, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted March 1, 2022 Having to generate all this extra electric comes at a huge environmental cost now and even more so in the future. At present they cannot recycle the blades from the wind farms. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51325101 & https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills Solar panels have a lifespan of about 25 years so what happens then as they cannot go into landfills due to components contaminating the water system. We are creating a bigger environmental issue now for the future with our current rush to be green and it is going to impact the next generation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Fourpot Posted March 1, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted March 1, 2022 https://www.engie.com/en/activities/renewable-energies/wind-energy/recycling-wind-turbines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Fourpot Posted March 1, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted March 1, 2022 On 27/02/2022 at 11:32, Surfer said: IMHO an EV is a fad at the moment and can be environmentally damaging due to the way the minerals are mined for the batteries. Not sure of a solution, but maybe hydrogen is the way forward once we find a way to extract it economically. Maybe current ICE engines can be converted to run on hydrogen? I believe Porsche and Siemens have made a petrol replacement that can be chucked straight into an ICE without any modification. It's made with carbon dioxide and air or some other magic, using surplus wind energy (in Chile currently where they have a lot of that). Still only experimental as it's costing too much to make let alone transport and sell with room for taxes. But they have run a 911 on it. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9286773/Porsche-begin-production-CO2-slashing-eFuel-year.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Surfer Posted March 1, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted March 1, 2022 19 minutes ago, Fourpot said: https://www.engie.com/en/activities/renewable-energies/wind-energy/recycling-wind-turbines I am surprised that both the BBC and Bloomberg have got it wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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