Viewed a 2.8CRD KJ that is for sale

[V]

A had a look at a 2005 reg KJ today with just under 12 months MOT. It has had full replacement cills and rear wheel arches this year and is in reasonable condition overall for it's age. Bodywork is mostly OK. No door dents but it has one in the front corner of the bonnet. Headlamps are new, but radiator is old. Front bumper colour keying is a bit off. It may have been in an accident but has been repaired well if it has. The wheels are tatty but can be made acceptable with a bit of work. I am seriously thinking about buying it but the engine sounds a lot more rattley than my 'babied from brand new' 2.8CRD Wrangler I owned some years ago. It's got a squeek on idle that sounds like it may be coming from the alternator or an idler wheel. It doesn't start as quick as I was expecting but not so many cranks for an obvious fuel pressure problem. The tyres have tread but they are bargain bucket and all have kerbing marks. The check-engine light is OK, not illuminated after 7 seconds. I didn't read any codes as my phone ran out of battery while I was trying to get a bluetooth connection.

 

I'm not to certain as what price to offer. I don't know what problems to expect on a 140K mile 2.8CRD. I need to make my mind up tomorrow. I have only had one 2.8CRD and it was brand new. What sort of risk am I taking on one with 140K miles? Service stamps are regular up to 2013. No bills or receipts evident since then other than work done to pass last MOT.

 

A high pressure fuel pump could be £300-£700

EGR valve £200

Alternator £130

 

I would be in for an extra £550 to replace the crap tyres straight away.

 

Edited August 20 by V

[jerryg]

Check timing belt changed. Quite a big fiddly job. Viscous fan clutch is a weak spot! Bearing fails then fan tries to escape through bonnet or radiator. How do I know? I just do! Radiators easy to source on fleabay and reasonable prices. Lots of other 'spares' available, not from dealers and several breakers with KJ spares.  Squeak probably an idler pulley. Spray a bit of washing up liquid over them to eliminate. Again, cheap and easy to source. EGR, MAF & MAP liable to 'sooting up'. Very capable motor, ask digger!

[V]

Thanks Jerry,

 

The timing belt was changed in 2022, I think about 2,000 miles ago. I saw the belt manufacturer service sticker with mileage and date but only took notice of the year written on it.

 

Digger and I have already been chatting. Can the EGR be saved with a clean or is it a case of excessive soot ruining them?

[jerryg]

I think it can be cleaned. Mine hsn't got too bad yet. Can be blanked off?

[V]

EGR blanked off and still pass the MOT?

 

I will need to do some research on that as I think the variable geometry turbo on it uses EGR as a wastegate instead of implementing a proper wastegate.

[UKTJ]

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere, but what is it for?  Another project or a daily driver that will remain unmodified?

 

If the latter, and I hesitate to say this, but does it need to be a Jeep?  For many reasons my wife misses the WK2 we swapped for a Golf for her to share with my son, but I know she also finds the Golf much more convenient around town, parking, etc.  I often jump in my daughter's Corsa for trips to the supermarket, etc. for the same reason.

[Caroline12]

Hi V,

 

noisey rattely engine, if the vehicle is starting, running and injecting the fuel pumps are ok.
I suspect the valves are clogged up with carbon deposits and not sealing the valve faces properly, also fuel injectors probably have some blocked holes with poor atomisation. This would be normal on a high mileage diesel engine, the oil could also be in poor condition and not lubricating as good as fresh oil, how old is the oil ? 
I would put in the Lucas diesel fuel treatment I said about in an different post, that made Daisy a lot quieter and more efficient, then continue with the upper lubricating liquid for injectors, valves and piston space maintenance.

Daisy is running very sweetly now since I used it, I’m at 73K miles and it did a good job on my engine. 
@spookie the aardvark V8 petrol WG is running a dream now after using the petrol version cleaner and lubricating liquid.
Also used it on my ‘22 plate diesel work van 34k miles and that made a difference, quieter too. 
 

I don’t know on this one, but something to check after the diesel WG fuel issues, what type of fuel lines does it have from fuel filter to low press and high press fuel pumps ? WG diesel has 3 plastic fuel lines with o-ring seals, which perished, and can be replaced. What does the KJ have and can you get hold of the fuel pipes easily if plastic or not metal. If metal, that should be best and fine, just check for fuel pipe damage. 

 

high pressure fuel pumps very rarely fail, people swap them out, when other issues are causing issues, it can be confusing at times with fuel issues.
Simple thing HP pumps, if the injectors are working HP pump is fine. Poor injector condition and blocked holes is from poor fuel and carbon deposits inside the piston space, this affects engine starting due to poor atomisation on the injectors, is not HP issues, that injector condition.
Starting - try a fuel cleaner first or remove and clean/soak the injectors, wire brush, probably caked in carbon crap = poor starting every time and poor fuel efficiency.  
 

hope that helps

[Caroline12]

Fuel HP pump and injectors, you could remove and take to a fuel pump/injector service centre, there is a good one at Colchester - I think it was, it was about 4 years ago,  I used them for a diesel generator for work.  
Then get the fuel system to good condition, they could tell you about any issues them and probably sort them out with overhaul. Overhaul rather than replace expensive items. 
just a thought 

[Caroline12]

https://www.colfuel.co.uk/vehicle-diagnostic-centre/
 

colchester fuel service centre 

[BLUE STAR]

Have never tried Lucas additives, or an 'upper lubricating liquid' in mu 2.8CRD  (does it actually make a difference, how does it differ from regular treatments ? which Brand did you use ?),  but over the years, as a 'preventative', have used BG44, Forte, Stanadyne and recently Opti-lube XPD which seemed to run quite well & is supposed to have much more lubricity than other brands, but was only available at Thames Lubricants, which no longer stock it, therefore only available via import from USA.

Edited August 21 by BLUE STAR

[V]

4 hours ago, UKTJ said:

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere, but what is it for?  Another project or a daily driver that will remain unmodified?

I bought Helen a 2004 Honda CR-V about 18 months ago and it has been a great car. She had one for a number of years and following problems with her BMW X3 she wanted to go back to CR-V. It's AWD and quite capable. I've been down a few green lanes in it with her and her Mum onboard to get to places. It's economical and with the variable valve timing it's no slouch either. Rear seat passenger space is more generous than a limousine. The one downside this CR-V has is that it's towing capacity is 1500Kg which drastically reduces options when looking for used caravans. The KJ has a towing limit of 3,500Kg.

 

The secondary aspect is that I will use it as one of the reference vehicles when designing the jeeptrekNG course. It was the first IFS Jeep I drove offroad and I was hopeless with it so I will be going back to being a newbie on an unlifted Jeep with street tyres. Next summer I will make a few subtle changes with a small lift and All Terrain tyres but it's primary purpose is a tow vehicle for year round caravan trips.

 

Depending on how well liked the KJ is, it may replace the CR-V. I will MOT the CR-V in November and decide what to do with it then. The downside of old crossover cars is that they are built with car technology and not light truck technology. This means that fasteners are often smaller with M8 or smaller being used in places where corrosion is likely. Replacing parts often means having to rectify bolts that have snapped. The small diameter bolts rust to the same depth over time as larger bolts but they just don't have sufficient uncorroded core to remain strong enough to undo. The Honda may be reliable but I dread having to replace anything on it.

[V]

4 hours ago, Caroline12 said:

Starting - try a fuel cleaner first or remove and clean/soak the injectors, wire brush, probably caked in carbon crap = poor starting every time and poor fuel efficiency.

Thanks, I will try that. I intend to use BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power and carry a few bottles of additive for when I have to refuel elsewhere.

[jerryg]

 V - check the towing limit - 'The KJ has a towing limit of 3,500Kg.' 

My owners manual states 2688kgs for manual, 3360kgs for auto.

 

[Caroline12]

2 hours ago, V said:

Thanks, I will try that. I intend to use BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power and carry a few bottles of additive for when I have to refuel elsewhere.

I use Shell V-power or BP Ultimate as well, it’s a lot better fuel.

[V]

1 hour ago, jerryg said:

V - check the towing limit - 'The KJ has a towing limit of 3,500Kg.' 

My owners manual states 2688kgs for manual, 3360kgs for auto.

 

The owners manual could be the US print version which is known to have lower towing values than EU models. Having recently found numerous errors in the FSM's RHD XJ wiring diagram, I place little faith in the accuracy of anything Jeep have printed. They have even recently proven that they can get the body data stickers wrong on EU spec JL Wranglers.

 

I think I will refer to the EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval data. This should be on the V5C which will be the figure used by the authorities. I'm not intending to tow up to capacity or much heavier than the Jeep. Two tons gives us a lot more choice for caravans than the 1300Kg (unladen) practical limit that the CR-V has.

[Caroline12]

3 hours ago, BLUE STAR said:

Have never tried Lucas additives, or an 'upper lubricating liquid' in mu 2.8CRD  (does it actually make a difference, how does it differ from regular treatments ? which Brand did you use ?),  but over the years, as a 'preventative', have used BG44, Forte, Stanadyne and recently Opti-lube XPD which seemed to run quite well & is supposed to have much more lubricity than other brands, but was only available at Thames Lubricants, which no longer stock it, therefore only available via import from USA.

Hi @BLUE STAR, 

- how does it differ to other fuel treatments, I have no idea to be honest. A comparison of them would take £1000s over a long time, only oil companies or the treatment companies could afford to do it, their are so many variables it would be very difficult to achieve.

 

- what I do know from over 20 years experience with diesel engines from ships diesel engines 87,000 BHP to diesel generators 50BHP, regardless of size/shape/stroke/turbo etc is that fuel quality is key. Poor fuel and it can knacker your fuel system/emissions/ piston, liner, cyl head, valves etc /fuel efficiency/ performance and pollution. 

- poor rough fuel will excessively wear fuel pumps, injectors- do not use red diesel - rough fuel and illegal in cars.

It causes more carbonisation on injector tips, rings, liners and valves, turbo blades, EGR and DPF. This carbon blocks injector holes = poor atomisation of fuel, which then kicks off a lot of soot in the system.
- The upper lubricating fluid, maintains and keeps clean the injectors sliding valve operational internally, stops or reduces carbon sticking to the injector tip and blocking the fine injector holes. This maintains proper fuel atomisation for firing and starting.

- from my understanding, the lubricating fluid A) cleans the components of carbon deposits over time. B) forms a lubricating barrier to stop future deposits sticking to the components (injectors, valves and rings etc). This enabling better smoother running of the engine, maintaining clean fuel injectors, better compression and less likely of piston rings jamming and loss of compression. In the cylinder. Diesel needs compression to fire (for those that don’t know). It would also clean and maintain valve seat condition for better sealing in the cylinder head. Clean combustion throughout, less or no soot, improved EGR and DPF condition, better fuel efficiency and performance.  In a nutshell, that’s what it will do. 
 

if you have a fuel treatment that you know and use, are happy with, then stick with it. 

For me (diesel) and @spookie the aardvark (petrol) it has made an big difference in engine noise - reduced,  fuel economy and performance increased. Both engines are a lot smoother in operation/running than before. We both used the deep engine clean first, flush out the soot/carbon then the upper fluid lubricant, because if the difference it has made to our engines and vehicles. We both use premium fuel E5 petrol or best available diesel. 

you can buy Lucas additives online at Amazon.co.uk, good prices too, especially the 3.8L (US gallon) upper lubricating fluid

[jerryg]

Trouble is that's what's on my Registration document so I'm basically stuck with it. Not a problem for me cos my caravan is only about 1700kgs.

[V]

I'm only looking at autos, but even the lower limit on the manual models still gives me plenty of headroom. What's your KJ like towing?

[jerryg]

9 minutes ago, V said:

I'm only looking at autos, but even the lower limit on the manual models still gives me plenty of headroom. What's your KJ like towing?

Yeah, tows ok with 26ft caravan on the back. Very stable, although I only cruise along < 60.  Pulls up Crickley Hill ok (Birdlip), gets a bit warm though! 

Still get circa 24-26mpg when towing (manual) even with muds on and all the other kit I've got on board and 2'' lift. 

My old XJ was awful for towing!    

[BLUE STAR]

1 hour ago, Caroline12 said:

 

For me (diesel) and @spookie the aardvark (petrol) it has made an big difference in engine noise - reduced,  fuel economy and performance increased. Both engines are a lot smoother in operation/running than before. We both used the deep engine clean first, flush out the soot/carbon then the upper fluid lubricant, because if the difference it has made to our engines and vehicles. We both use premium fuel E5 petrol or best available diesel. 

you can buy Lucas additives online at Amazon.co.uk, good prices too, especially the 3.8L (US gallon) upper lubricating fluid

 

Thanks for informative reply

I've owned my 2.8 CRD JKU 6 Speed manual since new (now on 115,000) and have used predominately, but not all the time, the V-Power,  plus occasional additives as already mentioned.

Try to keep aware of keeping the engine running clean & smooth with plenty oil & filter changes.

Last 3 or 4 years been using / testing various  additives along with regular (mostly Shell diesel) no point in paying for the premium when using additive.

Touch wood, seems to running well on just regular diesel ATM (finished the additive 2 weeks ago)  so will give the Lucas upper stuff a go next.

Red Line do one as well, going to test that one at some point.

Also the Mazda 2 petrol  has never had any of that E10 stuff anywhere near, always the V-Power E5, and has had just one bottle of Techron  when the idle wasn't quite perfect.

 

[digger]

I've cleaned 3 or 4 on different cars. I used 'granny's mixture' with  a tooth brush and washed off!

On 20/08/2023 at 23:24, V said:

Thanks Jerry,

 

The timing belt was changed in 2022, I think about 2,000 miles ago. I saw the belt manufacturer service sticker with mileage and date but only took notice of the year written on it.

 

Digger and I have already been chatting. Can the EGR be saved with a clean or is it a case of excessive soot ruining them?

. I expect just fairy liquid would be ok

[V]

Looking at 2.8 CRD servicing vids it looks like it's worth doing the EGR after removing the fuel filter, and doing the glow plugs when the EGR is out.

I reckon I will have to try your granny's mixture.

[digger]

Have you got the recipe?

 

My Kj was a gr8 car, I've often wished I'd kept her. Very comfortable too! We drove all the way to Eurodisney one year about 8hrs non stop apart from the tunnel. Excellent, we arrived and went out to dinner! I'm fitting KJ seats into the YJ soon. I want to preserve the equally excellent YJ ones.

I;m also a big believer in using decent fuel if you want long term good service etc. Diesel or petrol. Some of the supermarket cheap stuff is poor. As I've said before I proved it on my dyno. That E10 is gr8 stuff if you are an engine reconditioner! 

The 2.8 had gr8 torque (as did my 2.5 diesel in my XJ) so I'm not surprised at Jerry's comments. The 2.8 would go up most things on tickover! I think they have two causes of problems , poor maintenance and over revving.

Edited August 22 by digger

[TimC]

Likewise. KJ is a great Jeep, loved ours, sorry to see it go. As people have said, diesel is a bit noisy, and EGR gets sooty, if it gets too bad the engine light comes on. Cleaning, maintenance and good fuel .

[Stew the Jeep]

Had a couple of KJ 3.7s first one was ace second one not so First one I had molded and could do black routes at Tong