Membership age distribution

[V]

I was looking at some old photos this evening and realised that I officially* became a Jeeper when I was 33. That was the year I could afford to have my first Jeep, a 2.5TD manual Grand Cherokee ZJ Laredo. I remember at some club events I attended soon afterwards that there were other Jeepers in their mid 20's, but my age group appeared to be the most populous. I wonder how that has changed over the years. Would JOC be willing to publish a pie chart of percentages to show the age distribution of this club in 2023?

 

• Under 30
• 30-39
• 40-49
• 50-59
• 60-69
• 70 and over

 

I suspect that the 30-39 group is no longer the dominant age group and we could be an ageing community. I have known some JOC members for more than 20 years from other clubs. Embarrassingly, after so long I have failed to recognize some recently. However, I am concerned that there may not be many members in the under 30 age group. My youngest is in that age group and he has no interest in cars whatsoever, despite learning to drive at a young age and passing his test first time at 17. I am proud of being a 20th century dinosaur, but when I make it into the 70 and over group, how many of my fellow club members are still going to be Jeepers. Will the entry level age group be 50-59 by then? Are we all dinosaurs?

 

* I've been a Jeep fan since I was five when I got a Dinky MB and howitzer for Christmas, but I'm not counting the ones I couldn't drive on a road.

[UKTJ]

Based on no hard fact I suspect you are right @V.  I fear a combination of the increase in the cost of buying into the Jeep brand and the (to some extent maybe correlated) cost of insurance are factors.  But anecdotally I also recognise the reduced interest in cars of younger people, other than as a means to an end.

 

But I am also a lawn green bowler, the demographic for that makes almost anything else look positively youthful

[digger]

Very interesting . I have been a petrol head since I was 11/12 and bought my first non running m/bike which I rebuilt!.  I was 44 when I became a 'Jeeper'.  A new 4L XJ LTD SE , a truly gr8 car. I've said many times ''I'd buy a new one today if that was possible''.

 

Sadly I agree the age group has become older. I think this because over the last 50 yrs all incomes have become less in real terms and the relative cots of buying cars etc has become more. This is partly, in my view, due to the unnecessary, ever  increasing, complexity of vehicles.  Additionally I feel that its a lot more difficult for the average young person  to 'get ahead' than it was in the 60s/70s/80s.  Other 'essentials' cost a lot more too! Take a house for example. In those days,  maximum mortgage loan was 1 1/2 times a husband's income only which kept prices down. Prices exploded when the brakes were taken of the control of how much lenders could lend!  A property that cost 5k in 1970 is 245k now, a 49 fold increase! Ask yourself , have you had an increase in income like this? National average income in 1970 was about £950pa,  whereas to day its about 30k I understand. A 30 fold increase! I have no stats on cars but I know this . I had an 'E'type Jag in 1970(not new) New price £2300 I think, which was about half an average house price! 'F' type new today about half an average house price!

Added to all this various influences have deliberately discouraged DIY  resulting in less interest in older and lower cost vehicles plus of course built in obsolescence!

 

Don't worry 'V' , you've along way to go before you join the 'dino' club!!  I bet there's not many in that last age group!   I can't agree with you re them , I think its the one that's guaranteed to grow in numbers! 

Edited February 25 by digger

[UKTJ]

1 hour ago, digger said:

Very interesting . I have been a petrol head since I was 11/12 and bought my first non running m/bike which I rebuilt!.  I was 44 when I became a 'Jeeper'.  A new 4L XJ LTD SE , a truly gr8 car. I've said many times ''I'd buy a new one today if that was possible''.

 

Sadly I agree the age group has become older. I think this because over the last 50 yrs all incomes have become less in real terms and the relative cots of buying cars etc has become more. This is partly, in my view, due to the unnecessary, ever  increasing, complexity of vehicles.  Additionally I feel that its a lot more difficult for the average young person  to 'get ahead' than it was in the 60s/70s/80s.  Other 'essentials' cost a lot more too! Take a house for example. In those days,  maximum mortgage loan was 1 1/2 times a husband's income only which kept prices down. Prices exploded when the brakes were taken of the control of how much lenders could lend!  A property that cost 5k in 1970 is 245k now, a 49 fold increase! Ask yourself , have you had an increase in income like this? National average income in 1970 was about £950pa,  whereas to day its about 30k I understand. A 30 fold increase! I have no stats on cars but I know this . I had an 'E'type Jag in 1970(not new) New price £2300 I think, which was about half an average house price! 'F' type new today about half an average house price!

Added to all this various influences have deliberately discouraged DIY  resulting in less interest in older and lower cost vehicles plus of course built in obsolescence!

 

Don't worry 'V' , you've along way to go before you join the 'dino' club!!  I bet there's not many in that last age group!   I can't agree with you re them , I think its the one that's guaranteed to grow in numbers! 

I can't find perfect numbers with ease.  But according to Parkers the Wrangler TJ was somewhere between £14,000 and £16,500 (for the period 1997 to 2007 as the data is presented.  Average salary (median is best measure for salary rather than mean) in the UK in 1999 was £17,800 and in 2022 £33,000 according to Statistica.  So an increase of c.85%.  Assuming the highest price for the TJ applied in 1999, which is a generous assumption, the same increase would put a Wrangler at c.£30,500.  But the cheapest Wrangler is available is over £60,000.  Cumulative inflation over the same period is c.72% (ie real income has increased).  But a Jeep Wrangler is up c260%.

 

By contrast a top of the range 1999 to 2002 Ford Fiesta cost at most c.£11,000, again generously applying the highest price to 1999 gives an inflation adjusted price of c.£18,900 today.  The actual new price today is c.£23,000 - 26,000, so at the top price an actual increase of c.136% or only about half the percentage increase in the Wrangler.

 

IMHO the cost of cars generally has gone up by more than inflation, complexity and safety features may be a causal factor.  But the cost of Jeep Wranglers has massively outpaced even that measure.  This is (again just my view) because Jeep has sought to reposition itself as a luxury brand and not the rugged, utilitarian brand it once was.  So it is no surprise that the average age of the owners of newer Jeeps will be significantly higher than it used to be.

[Cameron]

The good news is my two kids argue over who will get my Jeep when they get their license.  I know the answer…it will still be my Jeep but could be a good sign for future membership.

 

 

i was 24 when I got my first Jeep and have had one ever since except 4 mistake years.

[UKTJ]

1 hour ago, Cameron said:

The good news is my two kids argue over who will get my Jeep when they get their license.  I know the answer…it will still be my Jeep but could be a good sign for future membership.

 

 

i was 24 when I got my first Jeep and have had one ever since except 4 mistake years.

I think the answer should be "whichever of you can afford the insurance"

It will still be yours then for certain.

Edited February 25 by UKTJ

[V]

2 hours ago, UKTJ said:

Jeep has sought to reposition itself as a luxury brand and not the rugged, utilitarian brand it once was.

The TJ used to be the entry level Jeep and the Grand Cherokee was the luxury SUV. The lack of an 'off-road first' entry level vehicle in the Jeep line-up reduces the brand's chances of selling a new vehicle to a young person and retaining them as a life time customer.  I think the TJ was the last competitively affordable 'off-road first ' Jeep made that could do this.

 

This is not a rant about Renegades. I have lot of respect for their capabilities and for their drivers. The Renegade has been a successful product for FCA, but has it been strong enough to create a lifetime positive brand perception with the majority of customers? How many brand new Renegade purchasers bought a different brand next time around? The number of Renegades used off-road in percentage terms of those sold is tiny so it is not typically purchased with off-road capability being of primary importance for the majority of customers. It is not an off-road first vehicle like the Wrangler.

 

Stellantis have criticised the EU regulations recently. There are too few people wealthy enough to afford a new car in the volumes that the manufacturers need to sell. I am certain a big change is coming in the next few years with the disappearance of some car brands from certain markets around the world. I think Jeep may have already reached that point in Australia. I hope the same is not likely for the UK.

 

Still interested in seeing an age distribution of club members.

[digger]

8 hours ago, UKTJ said:

I can't find perfect numbers with ease.  But according to Parkers the Wrangler TJ was somewhere between £14,000 and £16,500 (for the period 1997 to 2007 as the data is presented.  Average salary (median is best measure for salary rather than mean) in the UK in 1999 was £17,800 and in 2022 £33,000 according to Statistica.  So an increase of c.85%.  Assuming the highest price for the TJ applied in 1999, which is a generous assumption, the same increase would put a Wrangler at c.£30,500.  But the cheapest Wrangler is available is over £60,000.  Cumulative inflation over the same period is c.72% (ie real income has increased).  But a Jeep Wrangler is up c260%.

 

By contrast a top of the range 1999 to 2002 Ford Fiesta cost at most c.£11,000, again generously applying the highest price to 1999 gives an inflation adjusted price of c.£18,900 today.  The actual new price today is c.£23,000 - 26,000, so at the top price an actual increase of c.136% or only about half the percentage increase in the Wrangler.

 

IMHO the cost of cars generally has gone up by more than inflation, complexity and safety features may be a causal factor.  But the cost of Jeep Wranglers has massively outpaced even that measure.  This is (again just my view) because Jeep has sought to reposition itself as a luxury brand and not the rugged, utilitarian brand it once was.  So it is no surprise that the average age of the owners of newer Jeeps will be significantly higher than it used to be.

First , I agree with your last paragraph which is why I think marketing methods are one of the not so good things, from the consumer point of view, in my experience.

As for stats as Disraeli said, ''there's lies, damn lies and statistics'' that's why I was only generalising based on experience!  For example I know how much we bought our first house for in 1971, so I looked  the street up  today in Zoopla! I do think that the longer the period of time the more accurate it becomes! 

I'm amazed  at the price of a TJ in 2007. i appreciate that a TJ cost less than a Cherokee but my XJ, if my memory serves me right was a list price of about 23/ 24k in '93.

[tedthefed]

  Price list from 1995

[tedthefed]

I recall looking at the Cherokee in the Derby dealer back in I think 1993 or 1994 as registration K or L . 
But didn’t swop as only just got a nee vehicle . Then purchased my first Jeep in 1996 and had them since , daughter has also had a few and now wife has got one . 
my first one was a 2.5 petrol in black and I am sure I paid £16995.00 for it . 

[V]

12 minutes ago, tedthefed said:

Price list from 1995

Sadly, the link doesn't work for me.

[tedthefed]

As this time been successful 

[UKTJ]

1 hour ago, digger said:

First , I agree with your last paragraph which is why I think marketing methods are one of the not so good things, from the consumer point of view, in my experience.

As for stats as Disraeli said, ''there's lies, damn lies and statistics'' that's why I was only generalising based on experience!  For example I know how much we bought our first house for in 1971, so I looked  the street up  today in Zoopla! I do think that the longer the period of time the more accurate it becomes! 

I'm amazed  at the price of a TJ in 2007. i appreciate that a TJ cost less than a Cherokee but my XJ, if my memory serves me right was a list price of about 23/ 24k in '93.

You may well be right, I can’t validate the numbers Parker’s are showing.  But I think directionally it is correct that Wrangler prices are up significantly more than the average increase for cars.  But that may well be the case for the LR Defender given the new incarnation is now a luxury car and not a work horse as it used to be.  So may be about the type of vehicle and not just the Jeep brand.

[AlexK]

Last TJ pricing I have is for a special edition in 2005 at £16,700.  The JK launched in 2007 at £17,995.

 

I can dig out TJ launch pricing if needed.

[UKTJ]

39 minutes ago, AlexK said:

Last TJ pricing I have is for a special edition in 2005 at £16,700.  The JK launched in 2007 at £17,995.

 

I can dig out TJ launch pricing if needed.

That's helpful and I think it is enough to confirm Wrangler prices post TJ have massively outpaced earnings, general inflation and typical car price inflation.  Other than a reason for the average age of Jeepers getting older it is not the central point of the thread, so IMHO not necessary to confirm any further.

Edited February 25 by UKTJ

[digger]

10 hours ago, tedthefed said:

As this time been successful 

Thanks Ted, my memory long term isn't so bad after all!

[digger]

Back to the beginning.   I'd love to see an age distribution of members too! 

[Caroline12]

I became a Jeeper in 2018 at 42yo, Renegade 2WD Limited. I had Saab’s for 17 years and loved them, but unfortunately I kept breaking my suspension due to potholes and bad condition roads. I was also at sea for 17 years.  When I commuted to work 28 miles each way it cost me a fortune, I wasn’t getting paid as much as being at sea and couldn’t afford it with the repair bills. 

I always wanted to go off-roading, but knew no one in it and didn’t want a Land Rover. Then all of a sudden Jeep popped into my head and went to look at jeeps, great off road and I hoped I wouldn’t break the suspension. Then brought my first 2017 Renegade 2nd hand, 1 year old. 
 

I can’t afford a new Jeep and what annoyed me was all the add on costs the dealership lumped on a £13k Jeep, it was now £17.5k with interest and all the stuff I was talked into. I loved driving it, but it wasn’t 4x4, which I wanted. I took a bank loan, paid off the ripoff PCP package from the dealership, saved myself £1500 straight away, months later I found Daisy, PX my 2WD for the Trailhawk and joined JOC. I’ve not looked back since. Best decision I made. 
I’ve met some fantastic people, great club, love the enthusiasm and events and I get to play mechanics with Daisy, which I love. Jeeps have given me a lot more in life, than I ever imagined it would.

[MynameisCarlos]

Born and raised in Venezuela means that the Jeep brand had been during the most majority of my life with me, I remember the grand wagooner, xj 88, grand cherokee 97 and others that my family owned in the past, my first jeep was my cherokee xj 2001 age 21, being in Venezuela also guarantee you to be able to go off roading every weekend with your friends,  here in the UK, prices are different and for that reason took me longer to be able to afford a Jeep, after buying and selling other cars to make profit I was able to get my self another Jeep, a cherokee kl at the age of 41, I will be 43 next month, I joined the JoC and enjoyed every single event since then

[MGomes]

I bough Hank in 2021 (used, 13k miles and 1 1/2yo), age 44! Took advantage of the fact that post pandemic the prices for campers were REALLY high and managed to get a decent deposit for the car, otherwise even at that age, with an Ok salary it would have been difficult (I am not sure I would have been able to buy it today at current prices)

Always loved the outdoors and having a modern off roader that did not need constant repairs (still like the old 110’s) was part of the appeal… joined the JOC, met some incredible supportive ppl and absolutely love the car…

I was out supporting Dorset Search and Rescue this AM (moving search teams) and they were all really pleased when they saw “their car” was a Wrangler, not the “other one” (a Defender 110)

[TimC]

My first Jeep was a steel pedal car, green, folding windscreen, white star painted on the bonnet and sides, I must have been about four or fiveI loved that car and it lasted years I still used to push my younger sisters round in it maybe nearly 10 years later.

 

First officially became a Jeeper aged 23, Bought my 4.2L CJ7 Renegade in sable bronze metallic from Howes Motors Eaton Bray for £3,500.00. First car I’d ever owned and still have it. I was just rootling through my CJ7 file and came across my membership card for the Jeep Owners Association which I’d joined. I was the youngest Jeeper in the club, by quite some way, I reckon most were in their 30s though. Almost  all the Jeeps were CJ7s, some 5s and 6s, one CJ8 Scrambler.

 

next ( actually Mrs TimCs ) Jeep was a brand new XJ Sport I think it was about 20k in about 1996. Had a break for two Land cruisers then back to a year old 2010 KJ. in the meantime I bought my 2.5 YJ Sport for £1700.00 in 2009 with a view to using it as a donor vehicle for my CJ7 restoration but didn’t need it and still have it. Bought my JKUR new on special order for just under £30k in 2014 which was still a reasonable price, this will have to last me till I die as there’s no way I can afford a JL.

 

Replaced the KJ with a Compass in 2018 and got a Renegade on lease in 2019 

 

Now definately in the upper end of Vince age bands unfortunately

[Gerald F]

Being a GP in the far North of Scotland, I always had to have vehicles that were capable in snow or on rough single track roads. I started with Renault 4's, which, with tyre chains, were almost unstoppable in snow, then moved to a LWB Land Rover; what a mistake to make! A 4wd Citroën BX came next, which was awesome on the road, and quite good in snow. It was mechanically too complex to survive for long in our semi-marine environment, however.

We still had the 4x4 bug, and bought a 2nd hand ZJ Grand Cherokee in 1998, and we've been GC owners ever since. We have 'off-roaded' in Scotland, across Iceland, Spain and Morocco, as well as extensive trips in Scandinavia, and are tentatively planning more, despite approaching our mid-70s. The Jeeps are astonishing vehicles for an active lifestyle, and ours is a comfortable cruiser on our bi-annual trips to Spain, powerful when caravanning in mountain regions, and almost unstoppable off-road (though we are perhaps a little more cautious than many, especially when it comes to mud). 

Our children, though more active than we ever were, are more attracted to bicycles and camper vans than Jeeps and tents, and are much more aware of environmental issues, which are so often associated with diesel fumes and torn up tracks – neither of which ought to be a problem with care - and are thus unlikely ever to buy a big 4x4. They are not unrepresentative of their generation, most of whom also tend to have less leisure and more uncertainty in their lives, meaning fewer opportunities to reach the increasingly rare places where 4x4s are essential.

I don't expect to replace our WK2 with the newest GC, and especially not a hybrid one for use off road. If we go down that path, it will be in a Renegade 4xe, which at least will have a spare wheel that an old man can lift!

If Jeep can supply a reasonably priced 4x4 utility vehicle (not necessarily a pick up), they may attract the young and less affluent back to the brand, but a new GC, and perhaps even a Wrangler, is too expensive for most people to risk beyond the kerb. The same applies to most current Land Rovers, so you will only see Japanese/Korean pick ups with real mud on them, and they will all be driven by farmers or construction workers. The JOC might outlive me, but it will need a change of heart from Jeep if it is to be far behind my demise.

 

PS, I'm not planning to die anytime soon!

PPS, I saw a Gladiator in Spain a few weeks ago; it was awesome, and I was filled with desire!! You could go a long way in one of those – with an extra fuel tank.

 

Edited March 1 by Gerald F

[Raakhee]

I've always wanted a Jeep. Growing up in Durban, South Africa during apartheid, we would watch loads of American TV shows and every time there was a beach scene, there was Jeep involved. So I came to associate the beach with Jeeps. Then there was that iconic scene in Terminator with Sarah Connor driving off into the sunset with a CJ-7 Renegade, just made me really want one.

Fast forward to December 2018, when I bought my first Jeep, Renegade Longitude, 2WD. At purchase, my intention was to drive to work and back home so didn't think I would need 4x4. If you have been to Kwa-Zulu Natal, you would understand why off roading never occurred to me. Some roads were muddy and gravel, houses built on the side of hills with really steep driveways. And we would traverse all that in a normal car. My mom would kick start our Ford Cortina, in reverse, downhill while wearing a Sari and heeled sandals. So off roading was a daily drive.

Anyway, @slammedeluxe convinced me to come to Slindon for my first Jeep event. He said I would be fine. Arriving, the marshals were confused when I told them I was in a 2WD Jeep. They said Jeep does not make 2WD. Not instilling confidence in me. Anyway, went around the course, loved it and went on to mod the Renegade.

9 months later I traded in the Longitude for a Renegade Trailhawk. Obviously more reserved in the mods (learning from past mistakes).

So now that is 2 new Jeeps in the space of 1 year 

Loved driving the Trailhawk. Got a bit more comfortable with mild off roading. I am a bit cautious as these rigs are expensive and have been the biggest single purchase made by myself.

So last February, I decided to go get my Wrangler. Jeep dealership was not too optimistic on selling me one. I appreciate being told the reality of the ordering system, but I really wanted my dream Jeep. Step in Jim Olexa who helped me realise my dream. I cannot thank him enough. So in June 2022 I took ownership of my Wrangler Rubicon in Hydro Blue Pearl. Loving every minute of ownership. I cannot count up the number of hours spent admiring the Jeep. My husband is beginning to think I love her more than him. (He may be right )

 

So in the demographic region, I'd be in the 40-49 group.

 

Edited March 1 by Raakhee

[AlexK]

I wasn't going to post this, but V has encouraged me to. It supports his view (correct me if I'm wrong, V) that the high pricing of Wranglers is a large factor in the rising age of JOC members.

 

This analysis tracks the price of a typical Wrangler over the last 30 years. For consistency, a 2-door Sahara has been used as, until recently, that was the only model that remained on-sale throughout each model's life.

 

The step lines show the increases in list price over time, from the YJ's UK launch in 1993 through to today's JL. The dotted lines show what the price should have been if that model's launch price was adjusted for inflation, using the ONS CPI index for new cars. Rather than using a straight RPI calculation, this allows comparisons to be made with the rest of the UK car market, and therefore shows whether Jeep prices have been rising faster than others.

 

A few points standout. Firstly, when the Block Exemption regs changed in the early 2000s to force the realignment of UK car prices, the TJ was the only Jeep that didn't benefit from a price cut. The XJ and WJ had up to £4,000 taken off their sticker price, and on their charts they'd show a healthy drop here.

 

Secondly, when Jeep operations transferred from Milton Keynes to Fiat Group's Slough office, one of their first acts was to crank up the price of JK - and by as much as £4,500 on some models. What followed was an escalator of price rises - a few hundred pounds here, a grand there - with some increases just a few weeks apart.

 

When the JL was unveiled in 2017, rather than softening the price of the now run-out JK, they instead increased it by around £3,000, perhaps in an attempt to disguise the huge uplift in price that JL would usher in. By the time JK went off-sale, it should have been priced at £26,570. Instead it was £34,740.

 

Ignoring for the moment the huge £10,000 JK-to-JL uplift, the first few post-launch price increases for JL were broadly in-line with new car price inflation. But in 2022, the escalator returned, adding £4,950 to the list price in April, a further £1,380 in July, and another £2,300 in October. In one year, JL prices went up by £8,630 and were now nearly £14,000 higher than when it was launched.

 

If you could still buy a TJ today, it would cost you just £26,000. A brand new JK would have been £31,000. If JL pricing had carried on where JK left off, a new JL would cost £40,700 today, not the £60,080 of today's cheapest Wrangler.

 

[V]

An additional aspect that you have to keep in mind is that EU regulations have forced manufacturers to incorporate more tech into vehicles for whatever reason. Regulatory additions and changes cost money and are more commonly introduced for new models. I suspect that a similar graph could be produced for other makes and models.

 

Has the EU been discouraging car ownership for decades by forcing manufacturers to push up the prices of new vehicles that must be compliant with their regulations? For a JL to cost twice as much as an inflation adjusted TJ, the UK off road Jeep community will surely shrink as the older vehicles become uneconomical to preserve and are scrapped. There may be a small resurgence in off-road Jeepers as more JKs approach 20 years, particularly if used values fall.

 

When adjusting the new prices for inflation, two mildly modified TJs cost the same as one stock JL. The entry level barrier to becoming an off-road Jeep enthusiast in the UK is now very high. I think that the sales figures of new Wranglers in the UK will be a reasonable indicator of the future size of the off-road Jeep community in the UK.

 

I think this is an existential crisis for the off-road Jeep enthusiast community. If we decrease in number, who buys the new Wranglers?

Edited March 3 by V