Slindon 4x4 - Saturday 1st April 2023

[Volant165]

13 hours ago, Hecklejk said:

Not gonna make it , Control arm snapped at 70mph on the M40 on the way down!! Fortunately we didn't crash!!

Nooooo! Hope you're ok! 

[Raakhee]

4 hours ago, eastbournesmiths said:

Nearly there

These are great. All your photos are great but the ones of the blue jeep are the best

[Hecklejk]

8 hours ago, Volant165 said:

Nooooo! Hope you're ok! 

We are all good, fortunately I had both hand on the wheel when the control arm went!!

 

I've got the new arms at home waiting to install next week, so should be a quick turn around.

[slammedeluxe]

Lou, John, Brad, everyone! 
 

Thanks for a fantastic day! 

[digger]

Hi everyone, many thanks to Lou and the team for another gr8 day out!

I'm sorry ,not many pics from me this time. Here's a couple though. My passenger , 'Mud Dodger' asked to have ago which gave me a rest! I said ''Ok,as long as you don't make  her get dirty, and , no scratching!'' Many thanks to you too, I would not have made it without your help!

The last one is UKTJ giving it the welly!

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by digger

[Volant165]

12 hours ago, slammedeluxe said:

Lou, John, Brad, everyone! 
 

Thanks for a fantastic day! 

Great to see you! So glad you had a fab time. Amazing photos! Hope to see you soon!

[Volant165]

2 hours ago, digger said:

Hi everyone, many thanks to Lou and the team for another gr8 day out!

I'm sorry ,not many pics from me this time. Here's a couple though. My passenger , 'Mud Dodger' asked to have ago which gave me a rest! I said ''Ok,as long as you don't make  her get dirty, and , no scratching!'' Many thanks to you too, I would not have made it without your help!

The last one is UKTJ giving it the welly!

 

Brill to see you. So glad you had a fun day. Fab photos! Hope to see you again soon!

Lou 

[Volant165]

13 hours ago, Hecklejk said:

We are all good, fortunately I had both hand on the wheel when the control arm went!!

 

I've got the new arms at home waiting to install next week, so should be a quick turn around.

I'll keep everything crossed for you that its a quick turn around. Have a great week!

[Raakhee]

A few photos

[Raakhee]

I eventually did the extreme track. Peer pressure won. Did a pic in pic to show what I see vs what everyone else sees.

It also helps if your spotter is sure footed

 

 

[Volant165]

3 hours ago, Raakhee said:

A few photos

Brill photos. Hope you had a fun day! 

[Grant Tuscan]

Great day. Thanks everyone at JOC who orginised and ran it and to those who helped recover me from my overly ambitious attempt at water crossing... the interior is all dry now.

 

See you at the next one.

 

 

[UKTJ]

2 hours ago, Raakhee said:

I eventually did the extreme track. Peer pressure won. Did a pic in pic to show what I see vs what everyone else sees.

It also helps if your spotter is sure footed

 

Very clever to do the Picture in Picture.  Will look again when I get home on a bigger screen, as on the phone the @Raakhee eye view is a bit too small for my old eyes.

 

I presume you had the front sway bar disconnected.  When you do that, do you (or indeed anyone else) know what the max up and down travel is for the front and rear on a stock JL Rubicon?

[V]

2 hours ago, UKTJ said:

When you do that, do you (or indeed anyone else) know what the max up and down travel is for the front and rear on a stock JL Rubicon?

I guess it will be around 10" of travel.

[UKTJ]

1 hour ago, V said:

I guess it will be around 10" of travel.

I've just found a table online that suggests the stroke on the stock shocks is 7.9" front and 8.5" rear.  But there is also then some mention of the angle of the shocks meaning that the articulation at the wheel is likely to be a bit more.  This assumes the shocks are the same in the UK as US, as this is from a US source.

 

[Raakhee]

5 hours ago, UKTJ said:

Very clever to do the Picture in Picture.  Will look again when I get home on a bigger screen, as on the phone the @Raakhee eye view is a bit too small for my old eyes.

 

I presume you had the front sway bar disconnected.  When you do that, do you (or indeed anyone else) know what the max up and down travel is for the front and rear on a stock JL Rubicon?

I was in 4-Low with rear lockers on and sway bar disconnected, 1st gear. @spookie the aardvark who drove my Jeep through that track just a few minutes before, did it in 4-High, swaybar disconnected and I don't think the rear lockers were on. I can ask him to confirm but he might repeat what he said on Saturday "too many damn buttons"

[Raakhee]

1 hour ago, UKTJ said:

I've just found a table online that suggests the stroke on the stock shocks is 7.9" front and 8.5" rear.  But there is also then some mention of the angle of the shocks meaning that the articulation at the wheel is likely to be a bit more.  This assumes the shocks are the same in the UK as US, as this is from a US source.

 

The Jeep was built in the US and I don't recall seeing that shocks being on the list of modifications before shipping.

[UKTJ]

11 minutes ago, Raakhee said:

I was in 4-Low with rear lockers on and sway bar disconnected, 1st gear. @spookie the aardvark who drove my Jeep through that track just a few minutes before, did it in 4-High, swaybar disconnected and I don't think the rear lockers were on. I can ask him to confirm but he might repeat what he said on Saturday "too many damn buttons"

That's interesting.  I was just curious as to what was needed to get along that test track.  I didn't try it as I hadn't disconnected my sway bar and I took onboard the intro comment that it would be super tricky without lockers.

[Volant165]

2 minutes ago, UKTJ said:

That's interesting.  I was just curious as to what was needed to get along that test track.  I didn't try it as I hadn't disconnected my sway bar and I took onboard the intro comment that it would be super tricky without lockers.

I did it in 4L with the sway bar disconnected and no lockers and the 10th anniversary rubicon sailed through

[V]

2 hours ago, UKTJ said:

I didn't try it as I hadn't disconnected my sway bar

I snapped my very first set of cheap tubular swaybar disconnects driving off road with them still connected. I replaced them with JKS Quicker Disconnects. The next time I forgot to disconnect, I bent the swaybar axle brackets. I usually disconnect at off-road sites and when green laning. Last year I thought I could get away with staying connected green laning with long tarmac road sections but I wallowed out the main bushings on the swaybar and had to replace them when I got home. Manual disconnects are a bit of a chore but they don't take long to do when you get used to them.

[frosty]

8 hours ago, UKTJ said:

That's interesting.  I was just curious as to what was needed to get along that test track.  I didn't try it as I hadn't disconnected my sway bar and I took onboard the intro comment that it would be super tricky without lockers.

with a Jk / JL you do not need to use the lockers on a track like that when you are driving at a low speed, the brake lock traction control will lock a spinning wheel to give you traction. it is good to learn what to expect when using this system first, then move on to using the lockers.

Brake lock traction control is much better for rock crawling, as you can still steer the vehicle. lockers are great for mud runs, or areas where you know you will loose traction due to a very loose surface, or a difficult loose surface climb. but even then it can cause steering issues, especially if you lock the front diff as well. 

[digger]

I agree. Like V ,my first set of quick discos weren't that cheap, I didn't think. none the less they had rose joints, with no grease nipples, which wore out rapidly and they bent the mounts. A waste of money!! I'm making my own now, more probs along the way but often the best! No built in obsolescence!  Nearly done but other things have been  a greater priority!  

This time I've used heavy duty curve angled track rods to get the length ,adjustability and grease ability good(don't ask what from, they came out of a bin full of old brand new stock assorted!) with ball joint to sway bar. I welded stock (but strengthened) bush carriers at the bottom end  and am replacing and strengthening the spring plates and a larger , stronger , carrier bolt to connect up(still to do). Lynch pins will allow disconnect , after which they will hang up on a bracket. 

We shall see! 

[V]

4 hours ago, frosty said:

Brake lock traction control is much better for rock crawling, as you can still steer the vehicle. lockers are great for mud runs, or areas where you know you will loose traction due to a very loose surface, or a difficult loose surface climb. but even then it can cause steering issues, especially if you lock the front diff as well. 

I often find that if I drive into a tight turn on a byway with just the rear locker engaged it will try to push me out of the turn making the turning circle wider. In my Jeep with Truetrac LSDs I can make tight turns without noticing being pushed out of them. I have often wondered if the combination of brake lock traction control and Truetrac would outperform a locker in the majority of driving conditions.

 

With the ARB locker when I approach an obstacle I have to first make a decision to continue unlocked with open diffs or to lock one or both of them. Locker activation requires slowing the ring gear almost to a complete stop, sometimes this isn't possible and I just throw the switch and hope for the best being ready to disengage as soon as I notice the locker is working against my progress. With a Truetrac/Brake Lock setup a Jeep would remove the locker activation decision leaving the driver to decide on tyre placement and power delivery.

[digger]

58 minutes ago, V said:

I often find that if I drive into a tight turn on a byway with just the rear locker engaged it will try to push me out of the turn making the turning circle wider. In my Jeep with Truetrac LSDs I can make tight turns without noticing being pushed out of them. I have often wondered if the combination of brake lock traction control and Truetrac would outperform a locker in the majority of driving conditions.

 

With the ARB locker when I approach an obstacle I have to first make a decision to continue unlocked with open diffs or to lock one or both of them. Locker activation requires slowing the ring gear almost to a complete stop, sometimes this isn't possible and I just throw the switch and hope for the best being ready to disengage as soon as I notice the locker is working against my progress. With a Truetrac/Brake Lock setup a Jeep would remove the locker activation decision leaving the driver to decide on tyre placement and power delivery.

Spot on I think!

In grass track racing years ago we used to weld up the diff to gain traction. Only problem was that when you booted it down the straight it was impossible to turn ! One just went straight off the track, through the ropes! Not a winning strategy! However , The solution was to do what we called ''throw the car''. I think they call this today , ''the scandinavian flick'' So , if you wanted to turn right you would keep foot down, flick steering wheel left (opposite to the direction you wanted to go) and quickly back right (sideways now) and then  back left again  into, by now, opposite locks . This would 'unsettle ' the car and put it into a full 4 wheel drift enabling you to steer with the throttle in the desired direction!

Of course I had to try something different! If you don't try you will go the same as everyone else! So I fitted a Jaguar independent axle with LSD. at first it was no different, just like a locked up axle. Jaguar technical told me it was because my racer was half the weight of the donor car! They told me how to restack the clutch plates in the diff. Result was excellent, the best of both worlds!  Unfortunately, while I was doing the work some one came up with a mid engine set up which walked all over the front engine rwd cars! Not so much fun though, for the driver or spectator!

This is also why ''the stock  traclok clutch plate LSD''   in some Jeeps can give you a hard time on ice etc causing understeer /oversteer without warning because there is insufficient traction to separate the clutch plates and allow independent wheel movement. Its of course also why mechanical types like Eaton/Powertrax etc are better because if you back off the power the locking effect releases and you can control it with your right foot.

I hope my explanation makes sense! 

[digger]

Another old method with an open diff is to yank the handbrake on and off in order to gain traction by slowing the spinning wheel where grip is zero so as to try and transfer  load to the other.  I understand this can be used on rare occasion when a mechanical LSD loses grip in order to stimulate lock up.