Platinum Member UKTJ Posted February 17, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Raakhee said: If there is no 4x4 training for newbies, you can follow me around. I've previously played around with my Renegade at Slindon and this will be the first time in my Wrangler. Trust me when I say this, there is probably no one more cautious than me. But in all seriousness @PeterDann, @Raakhee would be a great person to follow. I would also happily do a couple of runs around with you if it helps, having benefitted hugely from similar help from other members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Raakhee Posted February 17, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, UKTJ said: But in all seriousness @PeterDann, @Raakhee would be a great person to follow. I would also happily do a couple of runs around with you if it helps, having benefitted hugely from similar help from other members. Oh Terry, you did me dirty @PeterDann I can explain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member PeterDann Posted February 17, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 17, 2023 Thank you Raakhee for your kind offer. Terry - I will pack the larger of my 2 shrimping nets Just now need to hear from the club about recovery points - and then check with “the boss” to see if she wants to come along! cheers Peter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member UKTJ Posted February 17, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, PeterDann said: Thank you Raakhee for your kind offer. Terry - I will pack the larger of my 2 shrimping nets Just now need to hear from the club about recovery points - and then check with “the boss” to see if she wants to come along! cheers Peter I can't speak for the club, but personally I would be surprised if a stock Wrangler was not suitably equiped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted February 18, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 18, 2023 Absolutely UKTJ. Whilst there are some difficult areas suitable only for extreme mods, much of it is down to the driver more than the car. a stock motor would have a gr8 time! 10 hours ago, UKTJ said: I can't speak for the club, but personally I would be surprised if a stock Wrangler was not suitably equiped. As usual, folk are always welcome to tag along with me for a while. Lets face it if I can do it! I am booked but my issue is whether or not I will be able to make it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Volant165 Posted February 18, 2023 Author Platinum Member Share Posted February 18, 2023 Quick question. Would anyone like to camp on site at Slindon the night before the event? Please let me know if so. Lou 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Volant165 Posted February 20, 2023 Author Platinum Member Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 17/02/2023 at 10:30, PeterDann said: Thanks everyone. Over to you Brad/Lou - does my stock 2009 JKU meet your rule for this event that says “Please ensure your Jeep has suitable recovery points. ” ? Hi Peter, Thanks for your message. Apologies for the delay in replying. Factory points aren't officially rated in the Jeep UK handbook as far as I am aware but I know some people do use them. It's one of those topics that is continually debated. More than happy for you to attend the event without on the proviso you stick to the marked trails & sign the usual event disclaimer. There is one spot on the marked routes that can become a little more boggy depending on the weather but there is an usually an alternative easy lane next to it and the remainder is manageable. We will scope the site out prior to the event start and give a full briefing before everyone goes off exploring & to have some fun. Mrs V (Lou) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 17/02/2023 at 10:38, PeterDann said: Oh, and having not been to Slindon since JeepClub days will anyone with recovery skills be leading small groups around of newbies like us? cheers That’s the beauty of the JOC - there is always someone more experienced that is happy for you to tag along… my first JOC event was the Jeep Summer Camp in 21 and everyone was super friendly and helpful - I am sure we will Al be happy to help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 18/02/2023 at 09:05, digger said: Absolutely UKTJ. Whilst there are some difficult areas suitable only for extreme mods, much of it is down to the driver more than the car. a stock motor would have a gr8 time! As usual, folk are always welcome to tag along with me for a while. Lets face it if I can do it! I am booked but my issue is whether or not I will be able to make it! We will all be hoping to see you there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member PeterDann Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 12 hours ago, Volant165 said: Hi Peter, Thanks for your message. Apologies for the delay in replying. Factory points aren't officially rated in the Jeep UK handbook as far as I am aware but I know some people do use them. It's one of those topics that is continually debated. More than happy for you to attend the event without on the proviso you stick to the marked trails & sign the usual event disclaimer. There is one spot on the marked routes that can become a little more boggy depending on the weather but there is an usually an alternative easy lane next to it and the remainder is manageable. We will scope the site out prior to the event start and give a full briefing before everyone goes off exploring & to have some fun. Mrs V (Lou) Hi Lou Thanks for the reassurance But this does take me right back to my original message - as clearly you have some reservations about my “recoverability”. (My old TJ had a 1/2”? steel bracket bolted on the bumper). So what recovery points could I buy to add to my stock JKU to solve this - short of spending £1000s on new bumpers? cheers Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member TimC Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 A couple of years ago I was with the Club at Aldermaston in my JKUR and there was a particularly nasty stretch at the end of the circuit ( I think it may still be there) which looked like it had had a tipper fill it with clay. I think @doodle had given it a go from the far end but not got through so I thought I'd have a try. I did not get far, just about the length of the Jeep, it was buried to the axles in thick clay and I wasn't going anywhere forward or backward, it was the most bogged in I've ever been. Although I had "recovery points" on the rear bumper I was winched out by @stewart using the factory recovery point (while @Chrisbyand @neal provided invaluable assistance......pointing and laughing ) with no problems. The factory recovery point is 16mm steel fixed with what looks like M12 bolts going by the head size. I wouldn't do a snatch recovery from this ............ but then again I wouldn't do a snatch recovery. My ( Chinese ) terrafirma rear steel bumper recovery points are surface welded, I don't really trust them. My Smittybuilt (probably also Chinese ) has through bumper recovery points which are very solid and bolted to the chassis although I do not know that they are "rated " as such. I know that safety is paramount and nobody wants to open themselves up to liability in this day and age but it is possible to overthink things sometimes. A bit of common sense, planning and patience goes a long way in off road recoveries. Brute force and ignorance tends to get people hurt. Sorry for hijacking, this should probably be in a separate thread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member UKTJ Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, PeterDann said: Hi Lou Thanks for the reassurance But this does take me right back to my original message - as clearly you have some reservations about my “recoverability”. (My old TJ had a 1/2”? steel bracket bolted on the bumper). So what recovery points could I buy to add to my stock JKU to solve this - short of spending £1000s on new bumpers? cheers Peter Notwithstanding Tim’s valuable and direct experience, if you are concerned then how is the JK bumper fitted, is it bolted to the frame like the one on your TJ was? If so then could you get longer (suitably rated) bolts and attach an additional recovery point this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member TimC Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 I just checked back, that was in 2017! Good grief, where does the time go..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member TimC Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, UKTJ said: Notwithstanding Tim’s valuable and direct experience, if you are concerned then how is the JK bumper fitted, is it bolted to the frame like the one on your TJ was? If so then could you get longer (suitably rated) bolts and attach an additional recovery point this way? If it's stock then you don't want to be doing any recovering via the bumper on a JK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) There is only one way to resolve this issue permanently and that is to have the stock 'lashing' point tested by an accredited facility. There are two types of relevant testing methods, destructive and non-destructive (NDT). I suggest, going for the NDT first to confirm a practical load rating. Go for destructive if you wish to determine the safety margin between the proof load and the failure load. NDT should only require the part from the Jeep, destructive will require either a sacrificial component or a replacement spare part for the Jeep. 8,000lb winch is roughly 35kN pull 12,000lb winch is roughly 53kN pull I suggest a NDT proof load of 40kN for 30 minutes should be sufficient and low risk of failure. Testing at 60kN for 30 minutes would give a higher confidence in the performance of the part but there is a higher risk of failure. It's been a while since I have done anything like this so I have no idea what the costs are. There are companies in the UK that can do this and many universities with labs to teach students how to do this testing. You might be able to get a uni lab to do it for free, if not find a commercial provider like this one. Some confidence check calculations that can be done before NDT is considered: Force required to shear the diameter of steel used in the loop Force required to cause a tensile failure in the diameter of steel used in the loop x2 - two shafts in tension Force required to cause a tensile failure in the total length of welds on the loop shafts Force required to shear all of the fasteners Force required to shear the baseplate at the fasteners An approximate practical guide rule for #3 that doesn't take into consideration the amount of safety margin (it really is just a guide) is that 20mm of good weld can sustain 10kN. As a qualified mechanical production engineer, when I look at the JK lashing loop, I think it's well made and safe enough for me to decide to use it at my own risk. A lawyer would probably think, I'm not using that unless I know it has been proven safe to use in that application. A vehicle manufacturer may think, we don't need to pay for additional type approval testing if we call it a lashing eye. A manufacturer's lawyer probably says, make it strong enough for vehicle recovery as you will get sued anyway when customers assume it is a recovery point and it fails. The other thing to consider to put the strength of the lashing eye into perspective is the strength of the thing it is bolted to. Edited February 21, 2023 by V Missed the end of a sentence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member UKTJ Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, TimC said: If it's stock then you don't want to be doing any recovering via the bumper on a JK. Just to clarify (in case this gets read in the future) I was not suggesting bolting to the bumper would be appropriate, rather bolting through the bumper to the frame, so the recovery point is attached to it. Completely agree, just bolting to the bumper would not be good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Volant165 Posted February 21, 2023 Author Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 hours ago, TimC said: A couple of years ago I was with the Club at Aldermaston in my JKUR and there was a particularly nasty stretch at the end of the circuit ( I think it may still be there) which looked like it had had a tipper fill it with clay. I think @doodle had given it a go from the far end but not got through so I thought I'd have a try. I did not get far, just about the length of the Jeep, it was buried to the axles in thick clay and I wasn't going anywhere forward or backward, it was the most bogged in I've ever been. Although I had "recovery points" on the rear bumper I was winched out by @stewart using the factory recovery point (while @Chrisbyand @neal provided invaluable assistance......pointing and laughing ) with no problems. The factory recovery point is 16mm steel fixed with what looks like M12 bolts going by the head size. I wouldn't do a snatch recovery from this ............ but then again I wouldn't do a snatch recovery. My ( Chinese ) terrafirma rear steel bumper recovery points are surface welded, I don't really trust them. My Smittybuilt (probably also Chinese ) has through bumper recovery points which are very solid and bolted to the chassis although I do not know that they are "rated " as such. I know that safety is paramount and nobody wants to open themselves up to liability in this day and age but it is possible to overthink things sometimes. A bit of common sense, planning and patience goes a long way in off road recoveries. Brute force and ignorance tends to get people hurt. Sorry for hijacking, this should probably be in a separate thread. Dear Tim, I did suggest on my response post that Brad & I along with the Slindon site owner John will scope the site out early on the morning of the event and during the briefing advise as to sections etc that may cause difficulty. So yes, I am very much trying to utilise common sense whilst ensuring optimal safety & inclusivity for all. This is all I can do. Mrs V (Lou) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brad H Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 In short… Stick to the signposted routes, pay attention to all the information in the briefing, drive responsibly and you won’t need to be recovered. If exploring the rest of the site, take precautions like getting out and examining potential obstacles or wet/muddy areas, be aware of any recovery points on your vehicle that may need to be used if required, and also the suitability/capability of your vehicle to get through that section. On the subject of aftermarket recovery points. I’d strongly recommend having these installed by a professional who understands the layout of your Jeep chassis. There are way too many horror stories of recoveries going bad (to the point of physical injuries and worse) where something has either been attached poorly or to the entirely wrong part of the Jeep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Brad H said: On the subject of aftermarket recovery points. I’d strongly recommend having these installed by a professional who understands the layout of your Jeep chassis. There are way too many horror stories of recoveries going bad (to the point of physical injuries and worse) where something has either been attached poorly or to the entirely wrong part of the Jeep. ARB used to make a point about their bumpers being independently safety tested, including the operation of air-bags in a collision. I don't see anything on their current website that states anything has been certified by a testing lab, but they are probably the only 4x4 accessory company that would have their products tested. I cannot imagine that any of the Chinese or American made bumpers or recovery points have been tested by a recognised lab that issues product safety certificates. If you know different, then I would like to verify certifications. I had a quick look on TÜV SÜD and couldn't find any. Interestingly, some manufacturers think they can print the test lab's marks on their products without having them tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisby Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 4 hours ago, TimC said: A couple of years ago I was with the Club at Aldermaston in my JKUR and there was a particularly nasty stretch at the end of the circuit ( I think it may still be there) which looked like it had had a tipper fill it with clay. I think @doodle had given it a go from the far end but not got through so I thought I'd have a try. I did not get far, just about the length of the Jeep, it was buried to the axles in thick clay and I wasn't going anywhere forward or backward, it was the most bogged in I've ever been. Although I had "recovery points" on the rear bumper I was winched out by @stewart using the factory recovery point (while @Chrisbyand @neal provided invaluable assistance......pointing and laughing ) with no problems. The factory recovery point is 16mm steel fixed with what looks like M12 bolts going by the head size. I wouldn't do a snatch recovery from this ............ but then again I wouldn't do a snatch recovery. My ( Chinese ) terrafirma rear steel bumper recovery points are surface welded, I don't really trust them. My Smittybuilt (probably also Chinese ) has through bumper recovery points which are very solid and bolted to the chassis although I do not know that they are "rated " as such. I know that safety is paramount and nobody wants to open themselves up to liability in this day and age but it is possible to overthink things sometimes. A bit of common sense, planning and patience goes a long way in off road recoveries. Brute force and ignorance tends to get people hurt. Sorry for hijacking, this should probably be in a separate thread. One of my greatest skills ... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member TimC Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Brad H said: In short… Stick to the signposted routes, pay attention to all the information in the briefing, drive responsibly and you won’t need to be recovered. If exploring the rest of the site, take precautions like getting out and examining potential obstacles or wet/muddy areas, be aware of any recovery points on your vehicle that may need to be used if required, and also the suitability/capability of your vehicle to get through that section. On the subject of aftermarket recovery points. I’d strongly recommend having these installed by a professional who understands the layout of your Jeep chassis. There are way too many horror stories of recoveries going bad (to the point of physical injuries and worse) where something has either been attached poorly or to the entirely wrong part of the Jeep. I'd just like to say, in response to Lou's comments as well and for those who have not been to a JOC event, that the horror stories, particularly those you see on Youtube, are either pay and play sites or cowboy off piste greenlaning. I've never been to a JOC event that hasn't been professionally run, well organised and safe. When it comes to recovery there is always someone on the team who knows what they are doing and fellow Jeepers do not endanger anyone else by behaving recklessly..........in my experience. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, TimC said: I'd just like to say, in response to Lou's comments as well and for those who have not been to a JOC event, that the horror stories, particularly those you see on Youtube, are either pay and play sites or cowboy off piste greenlaning. I've never been to a JOC event that hasn't been professionally run, well organised and safe. When it comes to recovery there is always someone on the team who knows what they are doing and fellow Jeepers do not endanger anyone else by behaving recklessly..........in my experience. This is probably the most valuable comment of all... I do not take Hank to p&p sites unless if with the JOC - purely because I trust JOC members more than the "send it brigade" that will have cars that they do not care if they get damaged etc.. - Its a "safe environment" (as safe as i gets with motoring events) but at least we know we have ppl that are about their cars (makes a difference for me) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 hours ago, TimC said: I'd just like to say, in response to Lou's comments as well and for those who have not been to a JOC event, that the horror stories, particularly those you see on Youtube, are either pay and play sites or cowboy off piste greenlaning. I've never been to a JOC event that hasn't been professionally run, well organised and safe. When it comes to recovery there is always someone on the team who knows what they are doing and fellow Jeepers do not endanger anyone else by behaving recklessly..........in my experience. Thanks @TimC We might allow for a few photos before recovery, but I can’t find any from 2017….. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member TimC Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, neal said: Thanks @TimC We might allow for a few photos before recovery, but I can’t find any from 2017….. I’m still hoping I get to repay the compliment one day Neal . I couldn’t find any photos either. I know Harry ( @Yellow also Hydro blue JK) posted one on the event write up but I couldn’t find the thread. Maybe it got lost in the transition to the new site. I have had to be recovered three times so far at JOC events, in the YJ at Whitecliffe, in the CJ7 at Devils Pit and in the JKUR at Aldermaston, never so far on any green lanes. Every time passed off calmly and smoothly without a problem. Devils pit might have been the worst as I was also leaking petrol at the time 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member jerryg Posted February 21, 2023 Platinum Member Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 18/02/2023 at 16:55, Volant165 said: Quick question. Would anyone like to camp on site at Slindon the night before the event? Please let me know if so. Lou Hi Lou, I would like to camp at Slindon on the Friday night if it's available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.