A dilemma!

[Surfer]

In Aug this year on Autotrader there was an ad by a franchised Jeep dealership for a one owner 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland with full Jeep service history and low mileage which I then then went onto purchase.  I then found one I was actually the 3rd owner, but was not too concerned.

Recently I was at another Jeep franchise and it was mentioned that the Jeep did not appear to be a 2018 although it was registered on 1st March 2018 the earliest date for 2018 registrations. I did a check on the VIN number and it is definitely a 2017 model although registered as a 2018.  I am quite miffed as the difference in price for similar mileage vehicle between a 2017 and a 2018 is approximately £5000.

In addition to the above, it now appears that all the windows and mirrors may need to be replaced on the Jeep due to speckling in the windows which impairs your vision in certain light i.e. when sun is low on the horizon. National Windscreens and also a professional valet have checked the vehicle and the glass is definitely affected.

The vehicle drives well and no issues there, but the big concern here is when trading it in as another Jeep dealer or another brand dealer will realise that it is a 2017 and offer a lot less than if it was a 2018 and the other concern is the issue with the glass on the vehicle.  This is the first Jeep that we have a major issue and we have had two previous Jeeps.

I cannot find out of there are any differences between the 2017 and 2018 Overland.  Not sure where I stand regarding the model year issue and whether it is worth investigating further?

 

[Black_box_jeep]

Have you approached the original dealer with your concerns? 

[Surfer]

6 minutes ago, Black_box_jeep said:

Have you approached the original dealer with your concerns? 

I have approached them regarding the windows they they are collecting the vehicle to check it over.  At this point I would want more input regarding the model year before making any approaches. 

As a franchised Jeep dealership they should have been aware that it was a 2017 model and not a 2018 and I feel that they should have informed me.  Knowing it was a 2017 and at the price it was selling, I probably would not have gone ahead with the purchase.

[V]

Jeep usually do their 'Model Year' changeovers in the summer. The manufacturing date will be on a VIN sticker on one of the doorway frames or door. I don't know the model year change dates are for your Jeep but it is possible to buy a 2018 Model Year (MY) in the latter half of 2017.

[Surfer]

Not sure why anyone would want a 2018 registered as a 2017 model as from 1st Sept it has the prefix 67?  The VIN on our Jeep indicates it is a 2017 model and the owner's manual indicates it is a 2017. 

Having had two previous Jeeps I was familiar with the controls etc and sadly saw no need to read the owner's manual until I checked on it on Wednesday just gone.   The 10th digit in the VIN should indicate the year model.  Basically I paid over the odds for a 2017 model.

[TimC]

I agree with Vince. The "model year " Jeep uses can be confusing. My JKU was ordered (by me) in March 2014, it left the factory in September 2014 as noted on the VIN sticker on the door frame and arrived with me at the start of November 2014 Registered on a 64 plate. It is, however a 2015 Model year even though, because it was a special order (V6 petrols and Rubicons had to be special ordered) at the time I ordered it things like paint options were from the 2014 MY spec. 

[Surfer]

Issue is still the price difference on year of model and another Jeep dealer picked it up straight away.  I am not sure what differences there are between the 2017 and the 2018.  I have a 2018 Jeep grand Cherokee sales brochure, but cannot find a 2017 sales brochure to compare whether there are any real differences.  Next time I will buy more local to us as trust Unity instead of 170 miles away from a different dealer.  Lesson severely learnt!

[neal]

As @TimC and @V have mentioned Jeep and it’s model year can be really confusing. Add to that the UK registration process, you end up with 3 different dates.

MY - Model year - spec of the model and as mentioned Jeep start production of next year half way through current year.

MD - Manufacturing date - date it is actually manufactured. Which given the above a 2018 MY could have a 2017 MD

RD - Registration date - date of UK registration. If you look at early JK’s due to the challenges Daimler Chrysler had in 08-09, you will find lots of RD 08/09 are actually MD 07 that sat around for a couple of years.

 

First thing to confirm is the MY of your  Jeep and what difference, if any, there is/was between the MY’s. Then if it’s a big impact, back to the dealer

[Surfer]

10 minutes ago, neal said:

As @TimC and @V have mentioned Jeep and it’s model year can be really confusing. Add to that the UK registration process, you end up with 3 different dates.

MY - Model year - spec of the model and as mentioned Jeep start production of next year half way through current year.

MD - Manufacturing date - date it is actually manufactured. Which given the above a 2018 MY could have a 2017 MD

RD - Registration date - date of UK registration. If you look at early JK’s due to the challenges Daimler Chrysler had in 08-09, you will find lots of RD 08/09 are actually MD 07 that sat around for a couple of years.

 

First thing to confirm is the MY of your  Jeep and what difference, if any, there is/was between the MY’s. Then if it’s a big impact, back to the dealer

 

I must admit that I am a bit confused on the whole thing especially as it was a Jeep dealership that raised the issue and set alarms bells ringing. 

[UKTJ]

I think it depends on exactly what the add said.  If it said "2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee", as per your opening post, then I think you got exactly that, because it was registered in 2018 and they made no representation regarding the model year.  If they said "2018 Model Year Jeep Grand Cherokee" and it is a 2017 model year, that is a potentially different matter.  But, do you have a screen shot or any other copy of the ad, if not I think you will have a hard time proving what they said.

[digger]

UKTJ is correct, re the year and description.  This is an old dodge of the motor trade that's been going on as long as I remember.  Caveat Emptor I'm afraid!

The good news  is, if you identify the older model first then you can't half haggle!

Dealer or not I always cough up for a full search on the car that is going to be mine as well as I always copy the ad the second I decide to have a go at it. My WK was in a main dealer along way from me. When I arrived she had 5k miles more than advertised and the wheels had been painted black. They denied both, said i was mistaken !   There faces were good when I produced the ad!!  

Sorry you are having these problems Surfer, but they are not restricted to Jeeps

[neal]

6 hours ago, Surfer said:

 

I must admit that I am a bit confused on the whole thing especially as it was a Jeep dealership that raised the issue and set alarms bells ringing. 

@Surfer

 

I think you have a few things going on here.

 

I suspect you are actually the second owner and the Jeep was a pre registration one with the first owner being the original dealer, then sold to the second owner that was actually the first to drive it off the forecourt. You are then the second owner, but 3rd registered keeper after the original dealer.

 

Jeep did a lot of that at one point to get the right sales figures in the right year so Italy would give them specific models etc.

 

You then have a vin that says MD 2017.

 

As it’s a 1st March reg this would back up the pre registration/owner situation.

 

A 1st March reg in the UK, could be either MY 17 or MY 18, depending on when the switched production, but I don’t know enough about the differences to say what it is.

 

Have you tried getting the build sheet?

http://www.jeep.com/webselfservice/BuildSheetServlet?vin=1C4BJ……

 

replace the bit after the = with your vin and see what comes back. My JKUR comes back with a line that says year spec

[Surfer]

 

 

10 hours ago, neal said:

@Surfer

 

I think you have a few things going on here.

 

I suspect you are actually the second owner and the Jeep was a pre registration one with the first owner being the original dealer, then sold to the second owner that was actually the first to drive it off the forecourt. You are then the second owner, but 3rd registered keeper after the original dealer.

 

Jeep did a lot of that at one point to get the right sales figures in the right year so Italy would give them specific models etc.

 

You then have a vin that says MD 2017.

 

As it’s a 1st March reg this would back up the pre registration/owner situation.

 

A 1st March reg in the UK, could be either MY 17 or MY 18, depending on when the switched production, but I don’t know enough about the differences to say what it is.

 

Have you tried getting the build sheet?

http://www.jeep.com/webselfservice/BuildSheetServlet?vin=1C4BJ……

 

replace the bit after the = with your vin and see what comes back. My JKUR comes back with a line that says year spec

Using the link in your post the identification is definitely for a 2017 Jeep.  Pity one cannot determine month of build.  The Jeep had its second owner on 24/12/2020 so unlikely it was pre-registered by the dealership.  The owner's manual is for a 2017 model.  They may have had difficulty selling it new as during the winter the glass issue may have been picked up as it appears the issue with the glass was there from day one however at the moment that is a different story and the dealer is trying to resolve the issue.

 

When buying from a Jeep from a Jeep franchised dealership, a consumer normally places their trust in the dealership to identify any issues with a vehicle that one is purchasing and one should not have to do any in-depth checks on VIN etc.  I did run an Experian check on the vehicle which is how I identified I would be the third owner.  The check never highlighted any issue with the VIN number.  The Jeep dealership has a duty of care and this issue may come under the Consumer Protection for Unfair Trading Regulations 2018.

 

The argument I could try and make here is that the dealership mislead me into the transaction by informing me the vehicle was a 2018 model when in reality it was a 2017 model. If I purchased the vehicle in the last 90 days I would have been entitled to unwind the contract and get a refund however, if it has been over 90 days then the next legal remedy would be looking to claim damages. Sadly this only came to light regarding the VIN within the past couple of days so about 10 days past the 90 days.  However I am still within the 6 months for Consumer Rights Act 2015 if the cost of replacing all the glass is too expensive for the dealership to remedy.

 

As said besides the major issue with all the glass on the vehicle the vehicle is in excellent condition and I enjoy driving it, however ownership has now been spoilt by the issue of faulty glass all round and the model year and registration date issue.   

[UKTJ]

4 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The argument I could try and make here is that the dealership mislead me into the transaction by informing me the vehicle was a 2018 model when in reality it was a 2017 model. If I purchased the vehicle in the last 90 days I would have been entitled to unwind the contract and get a refund however, if it has been over 90 days then the next legal remedy would be looking to claim damages. Sadly this only came to light regarding the VIN within the past couple of days so about 10 days past the 90 days.  However I am still within the 6 months for Consumer Rights Act 2015 if the cost of replacing all the glass is too expensive for the dealership to remedy.

@Surfer again, my point would be whether you can show that they definitively did misrepresent what the Jeep was?  Do you have a copy of something from the dealer which shows they said it was a "2018 Model Year"? If they described it as a "2018 Jeep" or even a "2018 model" I think they would argue it is exactly that, a Jeep with a 2018 registration date on a 2018 plate.  Unless you can prove they said it was a 2018 Model Year and therefore misled you I suspect you will struggle with any action against them.

 

I am also not sure it will make a huge difference when you come to sell.  As cars get older my personal experience is what matters most is mileage and condition rather than exactly which model year it was.  The difference between model years is often subtle with tweaks here and there, unless it is a refresh of the model with more significant changes including obvious styling changes, over time those minor differences have less significance.

 

If I were you I would concentrate on the glass issue as that sounds like it has a day-to-day impact on driving the Jeep.  If it has been there since manufacture I do wonder how it has been lived with by the previous owner.  I also can't see how it can have been a one-off if it was a manufacturing issue, so there must have been a lot of other Grand Cherokees with this issue and it would be a known issue for Jeep and dealers.  Maybe it was a wider issue but was spotted in others and your one slipped through the quality checks.

[Surfer]

Unfortunately I no longer have access to the ad on their website so cannot verify.  I would think that if they stated it was a 2018 year that is open to interpretation and how any judge would view it if it ever went to court.   However a judge would also look at it from the layman's point of view and what any reasonable person would expect. 

 

I would be quite happy to accept a token payment for damages based on the Glass valuations to compensate for the difference in cost between the model years.

[Raakhee]

48 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Unfortunately I no longer have access to the ad on their website so cannot verify.  I would think that if they stated it was a 2018 year that is open to interpretation and how any judge would view it if it ever went to court.   However a judge would also look at it from the layman's point of view and what any reasonable person would expect. 

 

I would be quite happy to accept a token payment for damages based on the Glass valuations to compensate for the difference in cost between the model years.

There is a Web page called the Wayback Machine that will give you a screenshot of any Web page on a certain date in the past I think going back to 2004. If you know the url of that advert webpage, you can try it. Link below for the Wayback Machine

 

https://archive.org/web/

[Surfer]

Thanks Raakhee for link, but it only goes to Jan 2022 and i bought in Aug 2022.

 

Just to add I found a video of the vehicle that was done by the dealership and they specifically state in the video it is a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee and not that it is a 2018 reg vehicle.  Not sure if that helps?

[V]

If you believe that you have been mis-sold a 2017 product that was claimed to be a 2018 product, and you paid a higher price for it than a 2017 product with the same wear and tear, then perhaps you should discuss this with Citizen's Advice Bureau or a solicitor. There's nothing any of us can do about it. I think that for most of the UK's uninformed used car buyers their perception of value is based on the registration plate. I believe only a significant visual difference like a body shape change would affect that. I have no idea what a small claims court judge would think on the matter.

 

My oldest Cherokee was built in April 1993 as the 1993 MY specification of a 10 year old design. The first purchaser would not accept delivery before 1st August 1993 as he didn't want a 'K' plate on it a few weeks before the registration change. The vehicle was held in stock and registered in the first week of August on a 'L' plate. There was no difference in UK Cherokees with 'K' or 'L' plates, but it was important for first purchaser that it had the later registration year designation. It made no difference to me as the second purchaser, but the low average of 2,000 miles per year usage and two dealer services every year did.

 

The government introduced 6-monthly registration increments to ease the problem of concentrating new car sales between August and January because of buyer value perception. For many there is still a perception of increased value of a September plate over a March plate even if both imported vehicles arrived in the UK on the same ship together. The one registered later likely spending a few months rusting away parked in a field before it was registered.

[Surfer]

I have contacted Which Legal Services for advice.  Although I would like to keep the vehicle, at lot depends on whether the dealer or finance house will replace all the glass on the vehicle. 

[AlexK]

When valuing a car for part exchange, most traders will use an automated tool. Most have no concept of model years, only registration year matters.

 

If you put your reg into webuyanycar.com, what year does it say?

[UKTJ]

9 hours ago, Surfer said:

Unfortunately I no longer have access to the ad on their website so cannot verify.  I would think that if they stated it was a 2018 year that is open to interpretation and how any judge would view it if it ever went to court.   However a judge would also look at it from the layman's point of view and what any reasonable person would expect. 

 

I would be quite happy to accept a token payment for damages based on the Glass valuations to compensate for the difference in cost between the model years.

I'll be interested to hear if you get anywhere with the model year issue.  But in terms of the mythical 'reasonable man' personally I suspect if you showed 100 people on the Clapham omnibus a picture of a Jeep with a 2018 number plate and asked them what year the vehicle is, none of them would say "impossible to say without seeing the VIN to determine the model year".  And you can't even show what the dealer said in the ad, if they say it was described as a 2018 Jeep you will not be able to show that is not what the ad said, and as per above I think the typical layman would describe a Jeep with a 2018 plate as a 2018 Jeep.

Edited November 26, 2022 by UKTJ

[neal]

1 hour ago, UKTJ said:

I'll be interested to hear if you get anywhere with the model year issue.  But in terms of the mythical 'reasonable man' personally I suspect if you showed 100 people on the Clapham omnibus a picture of a Jeep with a 2018 number plate and asked them what year the vehicle is, none of them would say "impossible to say without seeing the VIN to determine the model year".  And you can't even show what the dealer said in the ad, if they say it was described as a 2018 Jeep you will not be able to show that is not what the ad said, and as per above I think the typical layman would describe a Jeep with a 2018 plate as a 2018 Jeep.

I would agree with @UKTJ and given that the changes that I can see relate to media screen size, or engine and both years are classed as a WK2. It is difficult to see what strength of argument you have without a copy of the add etc.

 

Different situation if it had been a WK to a WK2 etc and the changes had been significant, but then you would have seen that from the start.

 

Interesting to hear what happens with the glass and if TS have an opinion on the description issue 

[Surfer]

12 hours ago, UKTJ said:

I'll be interested to hear if you get anywhere with the model year issue.  But in terms of the mythical 'reasonable man' personally I suspect if you showed 100 people on the Clapham omnibus a picture of a Jeep with a 2018 number plate and asked them what year the vehicle is, none of them would say "impossible to say without seeing the VIN to determine the model year".  And you can't even show what the dealer said in the ad, if they say it was described as a 2018 Jeep you will not be able to show that is not what the ad said, and as per above I think the typical layman would describe a Jeep with a 2018 plate as a 2018 Jeep.

I am not disputing any of the above prognosis and you are probably correct, but this was a franchised Jeep dealer and not any other dealer and they should have been aware of the model year and informed a customer.  If I could establish the differences between the 2017 and the 2018 that would be a help.  If another Jeep franchised dealer picked up on the year discrepancy straight away, surely other dealers may do the same? However if I do not query it, I will be doing myself an injustice.

[Overlander21]

As most have already suggested, as there are no differences in build / spec I too think you might be worrying over nothing

 

I bought a new Peugeot Boxer van in 2018 which was unregistered and had been sat on the dealer forecourt for a year (it was a 2017 build).  The dealer registered it with DVLA when I bought it, so I bought it as a 2018 plate and I'll be selling it as a 2018 plate.  Because that's what it is. 

 

You bought it as a 2018 Jeep and you'll be selling it as a 2018 Jeep - because that's when it was registered and that's how 99% of the motoring public "age" a car, by the year on the reg plate

 

Worry not

[UKTJ]

2 hours ago, Surfer said:

I am not disputing any of the above prognosis and you are probably correct, but this was a franchised Jeep dealer and not any other dealer and they should have been aware of the model year and informed a customer.  If I could establish the differences between the 2017 and the 2018 that would be a help.  If another Jeep franchised dealer picked up on the year discrepancy straight away, surely other dealers may do the same? However if I do not query it, I will be doing myself an injustice.

I'm not suggesting you don't raise it with the dealer, I just think that unless you can show that they actually said it was a 2018 model year Jeep it is unlikely to go far. Describing it as a 2018 Jeep was not factually incorrect, not highlighting it as being a late registered 2017 model year was IMHO sharp practice, but I doubt it was illegal - though I am not a lawyer and it would be interesting to hear if my opinion is wrong when you hear back from Which legal services.  If this had happened to me I am sure I would also be frustrated with the dealer's behaviour, so I understand why you are annoyed.

 

The good news is that it seems that the specification difference is very minor and that when selling the Jeep the fact it is on a 2018 plate, the condition and mileage will have much more of an impact on the resale price than the model year.  I guess the moral dilema is when you come to sell it, will you inform any buyer that it is a late registered 2017 model year on a 2018 plate?  Will you describe it as a 2017 model year Jeep or a 2018 Jeep?

 

I am interested in the glass issue, I still struggle to see how it can have been built that way without there being a wider issue with many more Grand Cherokees.  But equally I struggle to understand what happened subsequently to cause it on every window and the mirrors.  I have seen windows damaged by hot metal fragments when somebody used a grinder on some steel a bit too close to a house, but something similar would have affected just one side of your Jeep, not all the way around.

Edited November 27, 2022 by UKTJ