Sell the Wrangler????

[Matt]

I've got a real head v heart dilemma going on and I'm sure I'm not alone here.   As inflation increases,  natural resources decrease and the effects of both become really noticeable -  it makes me and those around me question the 'car' I drive.   I'm not a bleeding heart environmentalist,  but I am passionate about preserving our wild spaces.   I haven't felt this is at odds with Jeep ownership,  but maybe its creeping in.   My Jeep is my (much less than)  daily driver,  but this week I did an airport run and two trips to the office and it is a bit painful. 

 

However,  I've absolutely loved every minute of those journeys with the roof down in 30+ degrees,  in a vehicle that I've made exactly how I want it.   Ive been looking at autotrader to see what a jeep-less future looks like and I hate the idea! 

 

Has anyone else been having this internal struggle? 

[doodle]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I've got a real head v heart dilemma going on and I'm sure I'm not alone here.   As inflation increases,  natural resources decrease and the effects of both become really noticeable -  it makes me and those around me question the 'car' I drive.   I'm not a bleeding heart environmentalist,  but I am passionate about preserving our wild spaces.   I haven't felt this is at odds with Jeep ownership,  but maybe its creeping in.   My Jeep is my (much less than)  daily driver,  but this week I did an airport run and two trips to the office and it is a bit painful. 

 

However,  I've absolutely loved every minute of those journeys with the roof down in 30+ degrees,  in a vehicle that I've made exactly how I want it.   Ive been looking at autotrader to see what a jeep-less future looks like and I hate the idea! 

 

Has anyone else been having this internal struggle? 

Nope..sorry - not one bit... In fact I'm wondering what will be my next Jeep...I'm itching for an XJ

 

Soon i wont be able to have them, so im going all out now before its all taken away from me!

[MGomes]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I've got a real head v heart dilemma going on and I'm sure I'm not alone here.   As inflation increases,  natural resources decrease and the effects of both become really noticeable -  it makes me and those around me question the 'car' I drive.   I'm not a bleeding heart environmentalist,  but I am passionate about preserving our wild spaces.   I haven't felt this is at odds with Jeep ownership,  but maybe its creeping in.   My Jeep is my (much less than)  daily driver,  but this week I did an airport run and two trips to the office and it is a bit painful. 

 

However,  I've absolutely loved every minute of those journeys with the roof down in 30+ degrees,  in a vehicle that I've made exactly how I want it.   Ive been looking at autotrader to see what a jeep-less future looks like and I hate the idea! 

 

Has anyone else been having this internal struggle? 

My internal struggle was when I was having issues with my JL (I guess now i can safely assume that it was dealer incompetence, as since I took the car to a different dealership that actually fixed the problem I have had no further issue - touch wood...)

 

I have a "newbie" in the Jeep World, and have owned Hank since June last year - but I absolutely love the car... some might say its not economical, expensive to insure, expensive to maintain - and all of that is correct; but when I though I was going to have to return the car thinking it was part of a "bad build" all my brain was thinking was "must find another one, goodness they are so much more expensive than when I bought mine..."

 

This is a very personal choice of yours... but, my JL is ULEZ compliant, it allows me to give my time to charities that support the emergency services, and it allows me to carry out other volunteer activities in all weathers (one of my dogs is a therapy dog and we visit 2 hospitals weekly), and in doing so it gives me so much pleasure! I have had the full roof off for a while this year, I have actually not put the freedom panels back on in the car for over 1 week now and this morning, I was able to take the dog to our weekly visits to the hospital in a safe cooler environment despite the fact it was 32C when i was driving back (air con doesn't work so well in the boot - so its great to have all open so air can flow...) - I also get average consumptions of 28/30 MPG with my Petrol Jeep - so in the end it does cost me a little bit more - but i get such enjoyment from it...

[TimC]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

 

 

Has anyone else been having this internal struggle? 

 

Nope..sorry - not one bit...

 

From an environmental point of view my 3.6L, 4.2L and 2.5L Jeeps all emit very little CO2, far less than my 1.0L renegade. This is because I do hardly any miles in them. For the vast majority of the time they sit on the drive consuming nothing and emitting nothing. 

My 1.0L petrol Renegade however emits oodles of CO2 because I drive it all the time and do loads of miles in it.

 

From an economics point of view, yes, it's expensive but it's a hobby as much as anything so you pays your money and takes your choice. If you decide it's too expensive a hobby then you take up something cheap.....darts maybe.

 

Of course this doesn't apply if your big gas guzzler is your only car and your daily drive, in which case maybe look at keeping the JKU and buying a cheap small car for the day to day mileage?

 

I am fortunate enough for my JKU not to be my daily drive any more so I'm not suffering in quite the same way, but if you sell the Jeep then that'll be it, back to boring motoring  

[BLUE STAR]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

I've got a real head v heart dilemma going on and I'm sure I'm not alone here.   As inflation increases,  natural resources decrease and the effects of both become really noticeable -  it makes me and those around me question the 'car' I drive.   I'm not a bleeding heart environmentalist,  but I am passionate about preserving our wild spaces.   I haven't felt this is at odds with Jeep ownership,  but maybe its creeping in.   My Jeep is my (much less than)  daily driver,  but this week I did an airport run and two trips to the office and it is a bit painful. 

 

However,  I've absolutely loved every minute of those journeys with the roof down in 30+ degrees,  in a vehicle that I've made exactly how I want it.   Ive been looking at autotrader to see what a jeep-less future looks like and I hate the idea! 

 

Has anyone else been having this internal struggle? 

Nope certainly not !

Only thing that gets me is the ever increasing BS Road Tax  comparable to an HGV  How is that ever justified ?

Plus the hiking of Fuel prices. (Do you think we are being 'conditioned' to except permanent high prices ?) 

Just stop watching the BBC / Sky etc and that old fraud Attenborough. (Bellamy was their man but they sacked him and his team because he had principals & refused to spout the agenda)

I'm concerned about our wild spaces also, but they keep covering them in wind farms, currently producing *'all except subsidies. (Some people think the wind is free heh)

But Prince Charles & Crown estates are happy since they've got all the sea bed to lease out. (Maybe that why he into this religion & the WEF / UN big time cos its a big earner for him taxing us plebs & keeping us locked down.

2 years of the idiots giving money away & lockdowns has caused the inflation.

Time to stop.

[Stew the Jeep]

Jeeps are environmentally friendly they last a lot longer than a lot of other vehicles 

[Overlander21]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Has anyone else been having this internal struggle? 

No.

 

[Matt]

I knew you guys would ase my conscience! I recognise what you all say,  Im not sure I'd be able to part company with the JK now,  she's one of the family. 

 

Looks like I'll have to get that second car after all!   Tbh,  I just needed some like minds to help me justify my decision.. 

[Mike WK2]

I know that one, just bought another car so the WK2 doesn’t need to be my daily drive. 
 

Only thing I bought another Jeep Renegade Trailhawk for the Mrs and I’m stealing hers for work. 

[neal]

@Matt I hear your pain, but NO.

 

It goes back a bit now but there was a total cost of ownership report done by Gartner (I think) that compared a Wrangler to a Prius. This looked at the full life cycle of both from production to dismantling. The Prius came out at almost double the cost over its life for lots of reasons. So you are only really saving the planet whilst you are behind the wheel, all the other impacts just seem to get lost in most of the current arguments.

 

You also have to factor in the cost of starting again and the loss of the grin factor.

 

So whilst I hear you, it’s still a no

[Raakhee]

100% No. I'm finally living my dream and you gonna have to pry my keys outta my hand.

I do my bit of reducing waste, recycling where possible, cooking my own meals. Heck I work from home and the Jeep only has 296 miles. So I'm doing my bit in not commuting and adding to the air pollution. 

You only have to look at the smile on my face when I'm in my Jeep to know I'm not giving her up without a fight 

[JimC]

Heck no.
I have had my WJ for 13 years, her 4.7 engine is ULEZ compliant. It has twin CATS which comply to the Californian emissions laws.
I also have to say that, err, forgive me Father as I have sinned, a Honda Jazz which is my daily run.

 

Oh and a 4.0 XJ and a 2.0 Alfa Spider

 

I took the WJ to work today and how I enjoyed just taping the accelerator gently and the feeling I got when the front of my WJ just lifted up, tyres gripped and then accelerated away was wonderfull. She is now 22 years old so this with my CO2 footprint must beat most Teslas.

 

Enjoy petrol while we can.

[Maverick23]

NO
 

Everytime I open the garage to reveal my JKUR it makes me smile … a lot

 

I effectively created this vehicle - as many others on JOC have - it is mine. Not sure how I could ever part with it … and then I drive it

 

These Jeeps are unique vehicles … enjoy

[TimC]

I get that feeling Kerry. My JKUR was built to my order, I waited nearly nine months for it to arrive watching its build progress along the way. I have tweaked it the way I want it to be and that is not the same as others would do it, which is OK. It is not the same as any other JKUR, I expect to keep it ‘till my dying day.

[Chrisby]

Nope !

But my Jeep is not a daily or sometimes even monthly driver . For many years my daily has been a Tesla model S which in my book offsets all the other cars in my life !

One of the companies I run is Carbon clean , we do decarbonisation equipment and DPF cleaning equipment for garages which hugely reduces emissions of vehicles. I also count this as offsetting my person carbon footprint, so no quandary on buying a classic race car to add to the collection

[stewart]

We had a training session Last Friday at my brigade on EV's they are a real problem when catching fire ! 

 

 

I'll be sticking with the internal combustion engine for the foreseeable future ! 

 

 

[Sicarrie]

On 12/08/2022 at 13:32, Matt said:

I've got a real head v heart dilemma going on and I'm sure I'm not alone here.   As inflation increases,  natural resources decrease and the effects of both become really noticeable -  it makes me and those around me question the 'car' I drive.   I'm not a bleeding heart environmentalist,  but I am passionate about preserving our wild spaces.   I haven't felt this is at odds with Jeep ownership,  but maybe its creeping in.   My Jeep is my (much less than)  daily driver,  but this week I did an airport run and two trips to the office and it is a bit painful. 

 

However,  I've absolutely loved every minute of those journeys with the roof down in 30+ degrees,  in a vehicle that I've made exactly how I want it.   Ive been looking at autotrader to see what a jeep-less future looks like and I hate the idea! 

 

Has anyone else been having this internal struggle? 

 

Yes, Matt - I'm in a similar dilemma.

 

Whilst I am acutely aware of the controversy over whether BEV's are the solution, the whole thing will be driven by legislation and consumer demand. I would like to be seen to be doing the perceived right thing for my commute, which may help offset the image of the other things that I do for pleasure. The only problem is that I there simply isn't an EV that I want enough to spend a shedload of my money on! I am passionate about cars and want to enjoy what's on the driveway. So I am currently mid-crisis about whether I buy a Volvo XC40 (about the only EV I like; a little bit) or a new Wrangler. Although I commute less than pre-pandemic, it's still a considerable mileage, so there remains an economy threshold below which it would be too costly to stomach. I've been trying to get a handle on whether a petrol or diesel would be the right way to go, but there are very few diesels out there, so the choice is compromised. Just need to be sure of a 'tolerable' mpg from a petrol Wrangler...    

[Fourpot]

I share your dilemma Matt,

I care a lot about the environment and the use of fossil fuels by humans is having an obvious and genuine catastrophic effect on the world, and I'm conscious of the emissions from my Jeep. Although I am actually carbon negative, having planted 1,500 trees a long time ago, that now suck up way more CO2 than I put out, I could do more by using less fossil fuel (not a forestry green-wash by the way, but indigenous British species like oak, elm, ash, rowan, maple, aspen that will be here for decades or even centuries yet). I don't have domestic gas, heat for hot water and heating comes from air-source, and I buy only renewable electricity. 

My plan, as I've said before (and caused a storm of derision) is to electrify my XJ, but in the meatime, there are fuels being developed (see Formula 1's plans for 2026) that do not use fossil carbon and can be used in any petrol engine. Porsche have run race 911s on it. Cost to produce is unviable at the moment, but it'd be a great answer eventually.

I keep throwing money at my XJ just to keep it running (and happy with new toys), as I invested so much of me into it over the six years I've had it. I could have bought something far more efficient and cleaner (and comfortable etc.) with the money...

[BLUE STAR]

2 hours ago, Sicarrie said:

 

Yes, Matt - I'm in a similar dilemma.

 

Whilst I am acutely aware of the controversy over whether BEV's are the solution, the whole thing will be driven by legislation and consumer demand. I would like to be seen to be doing the perceived right thing for my commute, which may help offset the image of the other things that I do for pleasure. The only problem is that I there simply isn't an EV that I want enough to spend a shedload of my money on! I am passionate about cars and want to enjoy what's on the driveway. So I am currently mid-crisis about whether I buy a Volvo XC40 (about the only EV I like; a little bit) or a new Wrangler. Although I commute less than pre-pandemic, it's still a considerable mileage, so there remains an economy threshold below which it would be too costly to stomach. I've been trying to get a handle on whether a petrol or diesel would be the right way to go, but there are very few diesels out there, so the choice is compromised. Just need to be sure of a 'tolerable' mpg from a petrol Wrangler...    

Thing to consider is what your Volvo EV will be worth in 6 - 8 years time compared to the Wrangler.

I mean who's going to buy a limited range or probably exhausted battery vehicle. (Does anyone even consider this when purchasing an EV) ?

 

"I care a lot about the environment and the use of fossil fuels by humans is having an obvious and genuine catastrophic effect on the world"

 

Only if you believe what you are being instructed by the media / Govt  & grant chasing so called Climate Scientists.

Only true green house gas that really makes a difference is water vapour, not the current 0.04% of CO2 (If it falls below 0.016% all plant life on earth will perish)

Gaslighting I think is the current buzz word to describe what's been going on for the last 30 years or so.

Drive your Jeep and enjoy it while you can.

[V]

9 hours ago, Fourpot said:

My plan, as I've said before (and caused a storm of derision) is to electrify my XJ

Speaking just for myself, I think EV conversions are interesting engineering projects. Particularly an XJ conversion that is just as off-road capable as the original internal combustion version. I will be just as interested to read about it as I was with your stroker build. If converting your Jeep to a BEV is the right thing for you, then do it and be proud of it.

 

I despise deceitful government policies that are forced upon all of us and are based on nonsensical BS dressed up as 'science'. There is no such thing as a zero emission vehicle, a zero emission solar panel or a zero emission wind turbine. Conveniently ignoring emissions and pollution in their manufacturing and use, the way that their required electrical power is generated, the losses caused by power transmission across the country and the ultimate non-recyclable nature of many of the facets of this net-zero agenda are all just methods to control those that can be controlled. Commercially available BEV's are a guilt free salvation for the deluded that are too lazy to spend the time to find out the facts for themselves. A true environmentally aware person would not condone the production of BEVs, solar panels or large wind turbines if they knew the facts about how they are manufactured, used and disposed of.

[Raakhee]

@V you mean like how they praised diesels for being "economical to drive, you will get your money back over 4yrs of ownership"

And then suddenly diesels were bad. 

Now we need to move to electric but they conveniently not telling you that they have issues with the electricity grid capacity. All those cars in Central and East London cannot connect all at once to the grid. With the price of electricity so high, I don't see people prioritising charging their car over heating their homes. 

Nothing environmental about taking away green spaces to build concrete buildings. 

[Surfer]

I am on my third Jeep.  When the previous 2012 GC Summit started giving me hassles that were a bit frightening I started looking around for something to replace the Jeep  and the next favourite was the Toyota Landcruiser which are very reliable.  However a 2018 Jeep GC was better value and more bang for the buck than even a top spec Landcruiser.  OH was quite keen on the LC but for the equivalent year etc it was several thousand pounds more. 

Bought the 2018 Jeep GC and OH is quite pleased with it.  However we will be making more use of OH's Corolla in future although it is nearly 25 years old, it still get over 40mpg, has air con and only has 117k on the clock.

[V]

5 hours ago, Raakhee said:

Now we need to move to electric but they conveniently not telling you that they have issues with the electricity grid capacity. All those cars in Central and East London cannot connect all at once to the grid.

If they could, the transmission and distribution losses would likely be greater.

 

With average electricity distribution losses at 67%, only 5 of the 15 wind turbines at Walter's Arena produce useable electricity, the rest provide power to be lost in transmission. Looking at this nationally, 2/3rds of the birds killed by wind turbines lost their lives for the shareholders of the large wind turbine companies.

 

Electricity generation is more efficient when generated at the point of use. Hybrid cars like Jeep 4xe models can generate their own electric power from liquid fuels and braking. They are better for the environment than BEV charged from the grid. BEV charged directly from a close coupled diesel generator may be better for the environment than charging from the national grid. Getting a politician to work through and understand the physics themselves, is as hard as finding an honest one.

Edited August 23, 2022 by V

[BLUE STAR]

Always wondered about how much was lost in distribution.

With all these wind  'subsidy' farms being usually great distances from the connected grid,  it appears to be a complete waste of investment and connectivity expense,  even when the wind does blow ? 

Its not just birds being brought down, bats also.

600,000 in 2012 according to Denver University

https://news.ucdenver.edu/study-shows-wind-turbines-killed-600000-bats-last-year/

 

I guess 'as usual' the truth is always the first casualty, especially when money, agenda  is concerned.

Could think of a more useful purpose in the future for these,  for the corrupt individuals involved, in this apparent expensive scam against the public.

 

[V]

Distribution losses are usually higher than average in rural areas where there are very long distances covered on 11KV lines where resistance is higher due to the distances involved. If you live in a rural area and own a BEV, eight or nine times the energy you need to recharge your car may need to be generated in a power station to do so.

 

Thinking of replacing your 12KW gas boiler with a heat pump in a few years, charging one or two BEVs at home? You will need a 3-phase electricity supply or alternatively a diesel or gas powered Combined Heat and Power generator running at 80% or higher efficiency.