Roof tent on 2020 Rubicon 3 door convertible?

[MKmagpie]

Does anyone know if the hard top rain gutter is substantial enough to support a roof tent ? 

[TimC]

I’ve had a roof tent on my JKU, off roaded with it, camped with it, didn’t get any problems. I’m assuming that the JL roof is going to be much the same as the JK except for the (useful) fact that the roof gutters  go right to the back of the top on the JL. They stop at the back of the rear door on the JK so on mine the rear fixing points are the rear tailgate hinges. I guess it may also depend on your tent and any other loading. Mine is a soft shell tent so only 50kg, a hard shell tent will be more. 
 

If you are worried and don’t want to drill the hard top to mount through onto the roll bar then I think Rhino rack to a backbone system that incorporates internal braces in the sides of the hard top. 
 

If you are just fitting a roof tent I would think you should be OK. 
 

By the way, since you are in MK you could have a look at my set up if it would help although not sure how much use that would be as the tops are different. Or have a look at my thread on it here,  search roof tents and you should find it, might be useful for you. Best of luck.

[TimC]

Roof tents

 

Think this should get you to it.

[Coojeebear]

3 hours ago, MKmagpie said:

Does anyone know if the hard top rain gutter is substantial enough to support a roof tent ? 

The gutters seem flimsy to me. I don't even hold onto them when climbing up to wash the roof.

[TimC]

These guys  rent one with a hard shell on gutter mount roof bars on a two door JL. 

[slammedeluxe]

Jeep JL Wrangler owners manual suggests max load on hard top roof including roof bars should not exceed 45kgs 

[Overlander21]

1 hour ago, slammedeluxe said:

Jeep JL Wrangler owners manual suggests max load on hard top roof including roof bars should not exceed 45kgs 

 

My dog weighs more than that

 

Do they just mean the OEM luggage rack is only rated to 45KG?  Not the tent kits?

 

 

[slammedeluxe]

30 minutes ago, Overlander21 said:

 

My dog weighs more than that

 

Do they just mean the OEM luggage rack is only rated to 45KG?  Not the tent kits?

 

 

The roof isn’t structural is it? The strength of the vehicle is in the Roll Cage under the hard top? 

 

vehicles have a dynamic Max weight that they are rated for when the vehicle is in motion where stresses of course are at their highest, according to that part of the owners manual the max rating is 45kg.  Most vehicles when stationary will take more weight as the pressures of driving etc aren’t there but unlike most vehicles, rather than a solid roof, you still dealing with what is in effect a fibreglass cover over the actual strength structure of the Roll Cage with a Wrangler. 
 

I’’m no Wrangler expert but whenever I have looked at RTT on JK and JL’s it’s always been made imperitive that a internal strengthening of the Hard top is needed or a roof platform needs integrating into the roll cage to provide the strength to take the weight of dynamic load and a stationary load when a RTT is in use and that simply installing some roof bars and a RTT is not sufficient.
 

maybe people with JK’s and JL’s could check their handbooks for their Hard top Roof loadings and check? 

[V]

I think there is some safety margin designed in between the stated maximum capacity and a yield point where damage would occur. As there are a number of JK and JL owners with roof tents already fitted, there is real world evidence that it is physically possible for the roof structure to carry the weight of the roof rack, a hard shell tent box, an awning and any other extra gear which could be 120Kg before adding the weight of two people in the tent overnight (another 160Kg). So if most current installations are running just under 300Kg when camped, that's over a 6 times safety margin. Not knowing what the actual yield point is, the owner just has to accept that roof or body damage due to exceeding the manufacturer's stated limit is their responsibility.

 

The tricky bit is the manufacturers stated roof loading and being pulled over by Police or DVSA. The officer's interpretation of the law could be that exceeding the manufacturer's stated roof loading presents a danger to others.

 

I think roof tents are really cool for their speed and convenience for setting up camp. I would like to have one on an adventure trailer some day.

[slammedeluxe]

2 hours ago, V said:

I think there is some safety margin designed in between the stated maximum capacity and a yield point where damage would occur. As there are a number of JK and JL owners with roof tents already fitted, there is real world evidence that it is physically possible for the roof structure to carry the weight of the roof rack, a hard shell tent box, an awning and any other extra gear which could be 120Kg before adding the weight of two people in the tent overnight (another 160Kg). So if most current installations are running just under 300Kg when camped, that's over a 6 times safety margin. Not knowing what the actual yield point is, the owner just has to accept that roof or body damage due to exceeding the manufacturer's stated limit is their responsibility.

 

The tricky bit is the manufacturers stated roof loading and being pulled over by Police or DVSA. The officer's interpretation of the law could be that exceeding the manufacturer's stated roof loading presents a danger to others.

 

I think roof tents are really cool for their speed and convenience for setting up camp. I would like to have one on an adventure trailer some day.

Most manufacturers will have a dynamic maximum load rating and a stationary maximum load rating, it was my understanding that due to the nature of the Hardtop on JK and JL not being structural then that rating is actually the same, Brad Kowitz has a good video on the Trailrecon channel explaining although he I believe mentions 70kg
 

i private messaged a couple of Wrangler owners on a very popular RTT owners page and both had no idea that a Wrangler maybe any different to any other vehicle and the RTT company had advised them that as long as the Roof bars they chose were rated for the weight of the tent then the owners would be ‘just fine’ 

 

I believe it would be very useful if someone more clued up with these specs at JOC perhaps could provide a definitive explanation of dynamic max load rating and stationary max load rating and make it a sticky, with the popularity of RTT’s it would be very helpful for owners and perhaps some of these RTT manufacturers could add the information to their generic vehicle files. 
 

the thought of a £1k + of 50kg+ RTT coming off a members Jeep on a motorway isn’t going to end well for anyone. 

[Stu2985]

Far as I am concerned this is the guy to ask or to watch if you want to prep your jeep.  https://www.youtube.com/c/TheRoadChoseMe

[V]

1 hour ago, slammedeluxe said:

the RTT company had advised them that as long as the Roof bars they chose were rated for the weight of the tent then the owners would be ‘just fine’

Oops. I guess they have assumed that every vehicle roof is suitable for a roof tent if it has adequate roof bars. They appear to have simply ignored the vehicle manufacturer's roof load limits.

 

That may explain why 2018+ Suzuki Jimnys can sometimes be seen with roof tents fitted on roof tent retailer websites. The Jimny's non-removable steel roof is rated for a 30Kg maximum load. Suzuki's own optional roof rack weighs 8Kg reducing it to just 22Kg useful carrying capacity.

 

1 hour ago, slammedeluxe said:

I believe it would be very useful if someone more clued up with these specs at JOC perhaps could provide a definitive explanation of dynamic max load rating and stationary max load rating and make it a sticky

I think this is more of a legal question that the DVSA should answer.

 

1 hour ago, slammedeluxe said:

with the popularity of RTT’s it would be very helpful for owners and perhaps some of these RTT manufacturers could add the information to their generic vehicle files.

Perhaps RTT manufacturers and retailers should verify that their products are safe for specific vehicle applications, not the customers.

 

 

[TimC]

@slammedeluxe you are, of course, correct on your points re static and dynamic loads on the roof and the nature of the Wrangler hard top. Here is a typical comment on the topic from one of the US Wrangler forums:

 

"I checked pg 37 of the 2013 JKU Sport.."The hard top is not designed to carry any additional loads such as roof racks, spare tires, building, hunting, or camping supplies, and/or luggage, etc. Also, it was not designed as a structural member of the vehicle, and thus cannot carry any additional loads other than environmental (rain, snow, etc.)."

 

What the manufacturer is doing here is trying to absolve itself of any responsibility for anybody putting any load on the roof of a JK/JKU and causing any sort of damage/injury. I had not thought of it before but perhaps that is why the gutter rails DON'T go all the way to the back on the JKU  

 

The fact that the manufacturer says you can't do it, however, doesn't mean that you can't, just that it's your own responsibility to make sure that what you are doing is not stupid. 

 

I hope that what I've been doing is not totally stupid, I tried to research around the subject, see what others have been doing in the real world, looked at various specs. For example my JKU specific roof rack is rated at 170lb (dynamic). However I was unable to verify for absolute certainty if this is what the rack is capable of being loaded with but not what the roof is capable of being loaded with. In the end I had to assume that if you are making a rack specifically for the JKU and you rate it then it must be good for the whole package not just the rack .........otherwise what's the point? In the end I just had to get it, fit it and make sure I was happy with it, otherwise it was all going on ebay. In the end you just have to take some personal responsibility for what you do....or get someone else to do it who will guarantee it.

 

If you are worried, as I said there are other steps you can take, for example

 

All this is, of course just for the JKU, I do not know about the JL. The big difference is that I know that Jeep cannot make that disclaimer for the JL because they supply official MOPAR racks and accessories for it. Maybe that is only up to the 45kg you mention.

 

It is a minefield   

[TimC]

Just to add, I probably run with about 60-70kg on the roof when I have the roof tent on. That's 50kg RTT + 10-15kg for the awning and the rack itself. 

 

When I'm parked up with me and assorted gear in it I probably have 150kg max on the roof.

 

The rack itself mounts to the tailgate hinges at the rear and gutter mounts at the front. It's been solid as a rock when driving and static and getting in and out. I was initially rather worried about this as my RTT is a soft shell that hinges out to the side rather than a hardshell that pops straight up, hence the load isn't centred on the roof, it offsets to one side to make matters worse. So far , though, I haven't seen any potential problems or had any issues with the roof itself or any of the mounts. 

 

Not a definitive answer by any means but it's all I can say.  

[TimC]

21 hours ago, slammedeluxe said:

Jeep JL Wrangler owners manual suggests max load on hard top roof including roof bars should not exceed 45kgs 

 

I was just re reading this section of the manual with it's warnings and cautions and it reminded me of an internet meme which goes something like: " If you think you are smarter than the previous generation .... 50 years ago the owners manual of a car showed you how to adjust the valves. Today it warns you not to drink the contents of the battery."

It's not that I want to return to the mythical golden age before health and safety when people were seriously injured and died in avoidable accidents, and no-one wants to get hit by an insecurely fixed RTT going down the M1 but I do think that when there is any element of risk it's a lot easier for manufacturers err on the side of caution and say " for Gods sake NO! This is not covered" than to try and anticipate and prescribe all of the possible circumstances where you could perfectly safely do what ever it was they don't want you to do. 

[V]

10 minutes ago, TimC said:

The fact that the manufacturer says you can't do it, however, doesn't mean that you can't, just that it's your own responsibility to make sure that what you are doing is not stupid.

 

I agree.

 

In the UK, I doubt a roof tented vehicle is going to get pulled over just because of the tent. The main issues being not to exceed the maximum Gross Vehicle Weight and keeping the tent securely fixed to the vehicle so that it doesn't fall off. Here is some government guidance on Regulation 100 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

 

If you are travelling overseas with a rooftop tent, the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic qualifies that a British registered vehicle that is roadworthy by UK standards is also roadworthy in the other countries that are party to the treaty. From my own personal experience, what foreign law enforcement think is another matter. 

 

I believe (wrongly or rightly) that if a UK based rooftop tent retailer advertises their product being installed on a specific vehicle, that they have a duty to ensure that it is both safe and legal to do so by any customer buying the same product for the same application. If it is not, then they shouldn't be advertising it for that application.

 

The manufacturer's stated roof load limit may be important from a type approval perspective even if the roof can physically take a greater load. There are some EU type approved small cars that have been manufactured this century that have a zero Kg towing limit. Amazingly, you can buy non-original 'E' marked towbars for these vehicles. It is still illegal to tow anything with the towbar fitted on these small cars due to the zero Kg towing capacity on the vehicle's type approval. It is claimed that the towbars are only for using ball hitch cycle carriers which is why they can be sold. I reckon a lot of used car buyers that saw the towbar as a handy feature have no idea that they cannot legally tow with it even if they have informed their insurer of the towbar. I don't know if a vehicle's type approved maximum roof loading has any other EU legislation attached to it that has now been copied into UK law. The only way I know that you can legally increase the type approved towing limit of a UK registered car is if it passes a BIVA test with a stated higher towing capacity on the paperwork/chassis plate. Fortunately, not everything has restrictive type approval legislation attached. In the UK, we can still fit bigger tyres as long as they have the same or higher load rating.

I wish that Jeep had done a proper job with the Freedom Hardtop and thought about how their customers would use the vehicle with it. I often criticise Land Rover for the new Defender, but I have to acknowledge that they did actually design the vehicle with adventurer activities in mind that make use of the roof. I am glad Rhinorack have produced a strengthening kit for the JK hard top, perhaps Jeep/Mopar could improve the Freedom top with something similar to get a higher type approved roof load limit.