2011-2014 Jeep alternator issues!

[Surfer]

We have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit CRD with a full Jeep dealership service history and it has done 73000 miles.  Last Friday while driving the Jeep went totally dead of us with not even the hazard lights working.  Lost power steering and brakes difficult to use, but managed to pull over on a busy A road into a town.  We could not sit in the vehicle while waiting for the breakdown to attend as we could not open the windows or even the rear tailgate!  This issue occurred with absolutely no warning.
We were away on holiday with our caravan and if that had happened on the M5 while towing our caravan the results may have been totally different especially if we had been overtaking a HGV at the time.  Any vehicles behind us would have had no warning and we would not have been able to warn them as no hazard lights and could not open window.
On reading up on alternator issues with Jeeps I came across two articles in particular https://mr4x4.com.au/jeep-grand-cherokee-recall-potentially-dodgy-alternator/ and https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-fiat-chrysler-recall-20170714-story.html demonstrating that Jeep are aware of the issue, but no recall was issued for the UK!  Here in the UK the issue of batteries draining and alternators going faulty is mentioned here.  https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/jeep/grand-cherokee/good  Does it need a serious injury or even a death before VOSA or DVSA make Jeep issue a recall or alternators. 

At the moment the Jeep is in for repair, but I am now seriously contemplating selling it and buying a Landcruiser as the next time we may not be so lucky and end up being another statistic if it goes totally dead on a busy motorway.  We can no longer trust the Jeep as much as we love having it.

[V]

I had forgotten about that recall. I am fairly certain in Australia that this music video achieved the recall. I think the problem is more prevalent in regions with hot climates. This could be why DVSA have ignored it or more importantly not had sufficient complaints about it.

 

If you can get DVSA to put it in writing that there is no climate change in the UK that requires your alternator to be replaced under a recall, that would be useful to getting rid of the CO2 road tax bands and Ethanol in fuel. Either the country is experiencing climate change or it isn't. They can't tax us for climate change and then claim it's not happening when it is convenient.

 

This recall should be worldwide. It makes an assumption that Jeeps don't go exploring far from their registered keepers home. What if you had been doing an expedition in the Sahara in your British registered Jeep? If the Jeep was pre-production tested to perform from -40 DegC to +40 DegC and production examples were sold claiming to satisfy those extremes then they should all satisfy those extremes, even those sold in the UK.

 

I am a Jeeper. I like my Jeeps. They are not perfect by any means. They have faults that I can live with and some that I have modified out. They also have some faults that I have introduced. Overall, my Cherokees make me smile when I drive them and I accept the problems because of their off road use. If you are no longer happy with your Grand Cherokee and want to sell it, then you should consider doing so. Hopefully, you will find something that closely satisfies your requirements.

 

Vehicle design legislation introduced in the last 25 years has increased the complexity of vehicles and continues to do so. I am amazed that any new car (21st century) has long term reliability as a characteristic.

[Surfer]

We also like our Jeeps an this is our second Jeep.  The previous one we had from 2012 until 2018 and it clocked up a lot of mileage travelling to France and Spain. 

Prior to Covid we used to go to southern parts of France and Spain every year where it is a lot warmer, but we have not been with the current Jeep.  No issue like this with our previous 2005 WK2 Jeep.  Surely the alternators in Jeeps are standard across the EU? 

I am thinking that perhaps due to Jeeps not being numerous on British roads the DVSA never bothered with them due to no reported deaths as a result of a failure of the alternator?

[V]

Prior to the heat problem being discovered, it is likely that all EU market alternators for your Jeep were identical. After discovery, the part numbers may reveal if there is a territorial obsolescence of an older model. For a business that may have thousands of replacement alternators in warehouse stock, it makes financial sense to only sell them in territories where normal use will not exceed the fault condition's thermal threshold. If the majority of cooler climate customers never experience the fault then they will never know.

 

Some recalls don't replace the faulty component with one of an improved design. For example, the vast majority of vehicles that were recalled for airbags manufactured by the Japanese company Takata (and Tacata Mexico) were replaced with exactly the same component, just a newer one that had been inspected for corrosion at the time of the recall. All of these vehicles still have the same ticking time bombs, it's just that their time has been extended by an unknown amount. Both the vehicle manufacturer and DVSA are relying on vehicles to be scrapped at end of life to resolve the problem. UK law should be changed to allow any owner to legally disable or remove any mandatory system that cannot be made safe at a reasonable cost after the vehicle has ceased production.

 

This is the process that DVSA use for recalls.

 

A freedom of information request may reveal if an alternator recall has already been considered.

 

You can report a safety defect to DVSA here.

[Surfer]

Thanks those two links could be very helpful once I know what the issue was with the car.  If it was only battery failure then I am unsure however the vehicle should have displayed some sort of warning prior to the incident.  As it was not a Jeep battery fitted I amy be snookered!

[Surfer]

Dealer has now confirmed that the alternator is the root cause of the failure and is quoting £1250 for the repair.  Nearly £900 for alternator and balance in labour.

[BLUE STAR]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Dealer has now confirmed that the alternator is the root cause of the failure and is quoting £1250 for the repair.  Nearly £900 for alternator and balance in labour.

Well I guess it will be good for another 70K is another way to look at it !

[Surfer]

13 minutes ago, BLUE STAR said:

Well I guess it will be good for another 70K is another way to look at it !

 

At the cost of the new alternator I am hoping that we never ever have the same problem of the car suddenly and unexpected dying on us. and going totally dead!

[BLUE STAR]

On 19/07/2022 at 11:34, V said:

 

 

If you can get DVSA to put it in writing that there is no climate change in the UK that requires your alternator to be replaced under a recall, that would be useful to getting rid of the CO2 road tax bands and Ethanol in fuel. Either the country is experiencing climate change or it isn't. They can't tax us for climate change and then claim it's not happening when it is convenient.

 

 

  Class couple of lines summing up the stupidity of Ed Millibands 2008 climate change act that they all signed the public up to.

A nice punitive tax that just gives on giving or taking depending on what side of the fence your on.

Read a while back in 2015 the EU collected  a total of 350 billion euros in emissions taxes and they're still BUST !

Yes it really makes me feel good that my 2009 Wrangler's road tax contributes £650 to the public purse (similar to the 2nd heaviest HGV on the roads (38,000kg) Where's the logic ?

Wish they would pass the collection plate to somewhere else.

[jerryg]

4 hours ago, Surfer said:

Dealer has now confirmed that the alternator is the root cause of the failure and is quoting £1250 for the repair.  Nearly £900 for alternator and balance in labour.

What is the exact problem? Find a local Auto Electrical specialist and get it repaired/refurbished? Save hundreds. Just a thought.

[V]

4 hours ago, jerryg said:

What is the exact problem? Find a local Auto Electrical specialist and get it repaired/refurbished?

 

I have replaced diode packs myself in a few alternators. The first time I didn't have a clue what I was doing but it was a cheap and easy fix and I was glad I had a go instead of buying a replacement alternator.

[V]

I am taking a complete guess at what alternator your Jeep has, but here is a website that supplies replacement parts for rebuilding alternators. If you can 100% accurately identify the alternator manufacturer and model you may be able to source repair parts in the UK.

 

A diode pack (rectifier plate) is $30. If you can find the correct rectifier plate for your alternator it will be a lot cheaper than £1250 if you can fix it yourself. I have just read about the same problem someone in South Africa had. They paid an auto electrician to change the rectifier plate in the alternator and it fixed the problem. Perhaps a rectifier plate can be repaired by desoldering existing diodes and resoldering new replacement diodes.

 

[TimC]

Yeah, Vince is right it is worth seeing if it can be repaired and even having a go yourself. They are fairly simple things, I replaced the rectifier, regulator and brushes on my CJ7 alternator. I think the regulator had packed up but the parts were cheap ( relatively) so I replaced the lot as they were all 40 years old. I  got the parts from Lighthouse Jeep and some were NewOldStock still in original AMC packing which made me smile. Didn’t take more than an hour or so to do and doesn’t involve crawling around under the Jeep either, which is a plus.

……….of course yours is a much more modern alternator, which has probably been designed such that it is almost impossible to repair without a laptop and the correct software codes

[Surfer]

I have read on some sources that due to the way the alternator is built, that particular alternator cannot be refurbished.  Earlier and later models can be refurbished.

If I have the vehicle uplifted to be taken to an Indie, the cost of the breakdown tow will probably cover any difference in savings.  Our nearest Jeep dealer is over 25 miles away down A roads.

[TimC]

8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

I have read on some sources that due to the way the alternator is built, that particular alternator cannot be refurbished.  Earlier and later models can be refurbished.

If I have the vehicle uplifted to be taken to an Indie, the cost of the breakdown tow will probably cover any difference in savings.  Our nearest Jeep dealer is over 25 miles away down A roads.

……why does that not surprise me ?

[Surfer]

6 minutes ago, TimC said:

……why does that not surprise me ?

 

As much as we love our Jeep I really think it is time to be shopping around for another brand like the Landcruiser even though it is heavier on fuel and rather old fashion in the interior.  Are they going to continue with the Jeep Grand Cherokee in the UK as there are no new 2022 models in the UK?

[V]

If you do have to shell out a small fortune for a new alternator, I can see absolutely no reason why you should not be able to keep the one that is removed, it is your property. If they say that the alternator is needed for an exchange then you know the alternator is repairable.

 

When someone says "it cannot be refurbished" it usually just means locating the spare parts is difficult or impossible. It doesn't mean repairing or modifying the alternator is impossible. Diode packs are inside the alternator for convenience, but they don't have to be. Older cars before the 1970's had DC generators using separate stand-alone voltage regulators. There is no reason why an existing rectifier plate can't have all of the diodes replaced, or for the alternator to be modified to have external (bigger) diodes, potted in a separate heat-sink enclosure with a dedicated wiring harness back to the alternator.

[Surfer]

In older cars I think the term was "generator" and not alternator?  They were an easy and cheap fix, but hardly ever failed.  The design of the current PC board should have incorporated a safety low resistance resistor which acted as a fuse.  When the diodes shorted, the resistor would go open circuit preventing the battery from suffering an immediate death and stopping the car.  Also you would get sufficient warning to safely pull over.

[V]

There you go, you are already on your way thinking about modifying your alternator with your own improvements.

[TimC]

2 hours ago, Surfer said:

 

As much as we love our Jeep I really think it is time to be shopping around for another brand like the Landcruiser even though it is heavier on fuel and rather old fashion in the interior.  Are they going to continue with the Jeep Grand Cherokee in the UK as there are no new 2022 models in the UK?

 

We had two Landcruiser Colorados, great car, never had any issues. All depends what you want out of a vehicle really doesn't it.  

[Surfer]

41 minutes ago, TimC said:

 

We had two Landcruiser Colorados, great car, never had any issues. All depends what you want out of a vehicle really doesn't it.  

 

We tow a 2000kg caravan and also use wet and sometimes muddy grass sites.  The Jeep has coped with these situations without missing a beat and is a superb towing vehicle.  However we have never been proper off roading in the UK.

[Surfer]

In March 2020 the original AGM battery from 2012 was replaced with a Platinum AGM UKAGM019E battery, but a few months later when the Jeep was in for its annual service, the Jeep dealer pointed out that it was an AGM "Start Stop" battery which apparently does not suit the car and can throw up weird error messages. I am not sure how true this is as they tried to flog me a proper Jeep battery for about £500!

I then had the battery replaced by the same fitters requesting the correct battery to be fitted.  The battery was replaced with the current lead acid Platinum UK019E battery and until recently I thought it was an AGM battery as never looked at the invoice carefully.   I was under the impression that as it is inside the cab under the driver's seat that it should be an AGM battery as they took out an AGM battery?

I think I would prefer to have an AGM battery inside the cab as opposed to a lead acid battery.  I am not even sure if using a stop start AGM battery will have any effect on the Jeep.

[V]

If the original equipment was an AGM battery and it was less than or equal to 90Ah and less than or equal to 900CCA (The Platinum AGM specs), I cannot see why the Platinum AGM would be a problem. If the OEM AGM battery was higher rated than the Platinum AGM battery, then perhaps there could be issues when the battery was getting low on charge.

 

Some cars original fitted with Calcium batteries (not AGM) have an anti-sulphation recharge mode where they periodically charge the battery at around 16V instead of 14.4V to remove sulphate deposits on the battery plates. Fitting an AGM battery to a car that has this type of alternator would be a problem for a battery that is not built to be recharged at 16V.

 

You could contact Platinum directly to ask them if their AGM battery is suitable for your Jeep

[V]

Platinum batteries customer support

https://www.platinuminternational.com/platinumcustomersupportcentres

[Surfer]

I contacted Jeep and they state it is a normal lead acid battery which was a bit surprising for a battery in the cab.  My current battery is rated to the following specs;

Capacity (C20): 800 Ah,
CCA (EN): 800 A
Cold Cranking Amperage: 800A
Ampere-Hours: 90Ah

The Jeep is very power hungry. Drain on power would be stand alone Satnav, TPMS for caravan and the caravan lights, fridge etc.  TBH I would prefer an AGM battery, but unsure if the software in the Jeep will misinterpret and throw up error messages. Not sure if it will do the same if a higher rated battery was fitted?