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Engine management light?


Surfer

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Last week when returning to Worcester from Somerset towing a caravan with our 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD Summit, the EML light came on and stayed on the rest of the trip.  The next day on starting the vehicle it was off and stayed off.  No difference in the performance of the vehicle while the EML was on.  The Jeep has a full service history with last one done in late Sept 2021.

Tuesday last I had to tow the caravan to Luton area.  After being stuck on the M5 for nearly two hours at Worcester I set off.  The next thing I get a message on the info panel stating that the "Front Collision Warning is Off".  At the time I had it on Cruise Control and the CC was disabled when the light came on.  Shortly after the Engine Management Light came on.  As I was worried especially as I was towing the caravan, I stopped ta Hopley services on M42.

When I started the vehicle again the FCW off message disappeared and I had Cruise Control again.  However the Engine Management light stayed on.  On arrival at my destination it was still on, but FCW Off message never came on again.  I got to Luton area okay and stopped there for about 2 hours. 

On starting the EML came on again.  After about an hour into the return trip on the same day, the FCW message came back on again and stayed on until I switched off the engine and restarted the vehicle at which point it went off and stayed off for the remainder of the trip.  Engine management light stayed on the whole of the return trip.  Yesterday on starting the vehicle the Engine Management Light stayed off.

Can any one advise on the Engine Management light coming on then going off after vehicle as been parked up for a few hours and also why the FCW Off message is appearing? Thanks..

 

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Hi, I had a similar scenario with my 2013 GC. With the FCW Off warning light, on mine it all came down to the ACC ( automatic cruise control ) sensor. 
 

These sensors are held in place by 3 plastic clips ( with screw adjustment ) to adjust the position the sensor is looking. Ie:  it must be set to horizontal - ie: front to back. 
 

one of the clips on mine was damaged and therefore the sensor was moving only very slightly but when it moved ( only a couple of degrees will through it out ) the light came on. 
 

then same scenario as you described light some times on then off etc etc. 

 

you can check it by just grabbing hold of the sensor and see if it has any play in it. 
 

I repaired the clip on mine just with some Liquid Metal Weld and never had an issue again,, until I replaced the lower front end and then needed to re calibrate the sensor. 
 

just a tip on that - you don’t have to pay a small fortune to a dedicated ACC company to re calibrate the sensor. 
 

if you know a good local mechanic there is actual a setting with the car diagnostics to allow you re calibrate the sensor, you do need a full diagnostic kit, plugged into your OBD port and take it for a 20 min drive whilst all plugged in. Bit of a faff but £50 to the mechanic to say thanks rather than the circa £600 I was quoted to recalibrate. 
 

also, if you do end up repairing a clip, then adjusting the screws keep a record of turns on each screw in or out as process of elimination and a bit of trail and error can get you very close to the horizontal alignment and then the above process takes care of the rest. 
 

hope that helps. 
 

 

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I am not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but willing to try.  Whereabouts is the sensor locate?  Please be patient and do a bit of a step by step process thanks.😀

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Me neither, just learnt by having ago. 
 

The Picture, arrow is pointing at the sensor, my front end will look different as it’s after market, but your sensor should be in the same area. 
 

square box with a raised circle / dome in the middle. 
 

basically it shouldn’t move at all. 
 

the other thing is just to make sure that the dome is clean just normal soap and water. 
 

go from there and depending on what you find can work through a next step. 

62EE885D-86E8-4CE7-891B-F5304326A0C0.jpeg

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Some diagnostic software is a very worthwhile investment. Doesn't necessarily have to break the bank and is easier to use than you think. Means you don't have to guess which of a thousand different sensors it is that's causing the engine management light to come on.

 

I use, and recommend, JSCAN diagnostics which I run on an iPad ( you can use a phone ) connected to The OBDII port with a cheap Bluetooth OBD adapter off EBay. Has all sorts of useful features as well as easy to use diagnostics. It's one of the best things I've bought for my Jeep.

 

There is a thread about it started by @Chrisby on here you can check out. 

Edited by TimC
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  • 3 weeks later...
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No issue since I raised this thread, but this morning returning from south Gloucestershire to Worcester up the M5 the Forward Collision Warning light came on again and about 15 minutes later the engine warning light came on. 

I am more concerned about the Engine Management Light than the FWC light.  Using the OBD tool it shows on error which is P0741 - Powertrain Torque converter clutch circuit performance/Stuck off.  I have no idea what this means?

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33 minutes ago, Surfer said:

No issue since I raised this thread, but this morning returning from south Gloucestershire to Worcester up the M5 the Forward Collision Warning light came on again and about 15 minutes later the engine warning light came on. 

I am more concerned about the Engine Management Light than the FWC light.  Using the OBD tool it shows on error which is P0741 - Powertrain Torque converter clutch circuit performance/Stuck off.  I have no idea what this means?

A quick search of the US Jeep forums gives the following as a potential causes;

- Low transmission fluid level
- Dirty transmission fluid
- Faulty torque converter clutch solenoid valve
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve harness or connectors
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve circuit is open or shorted
- Transmission internal mechanical problem

 

I would start at the top 2 as things easy checked at home and see if there is any change

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4 minutes ago, neal said:

A quick search of the US Jeep forums gives the following as a potential causes;

- Low transmission fluid level
- Dirty transmission fluid
- Faulty torque converter clutch solenoid valve
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve harness or connectors
- Torque converter clutch solenoid valve circuit is open or shorted
- Transmission internal mechanical problem

 

I would start at the top 2 as things easy checked at home and see if there is any change

Thanks.  The transmission fluid was supposed to have been changed at its service in Oct 2020 less than 12000 miles ago by the Jeep dealership.  Vehicle mileage is now 72400 miles.  Not sure if I can rule out issues with transmission fluid.

However on a few occasions I have noticed that it did not change into a lower gear when it should have changed and it felt for a moment as if I was running out of power before it kicked down to change i.e. I am on the motorway and it would feel as if I was coasting in neutral.  Same sometimes if on a slight incline.

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19 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Thanks.  The transmission fluid was supposed to have been changed at its service in Oct 2020 less than 12000 miles ago by the Jeep dealership.  Vehicle mileage is now 72400 miles.  Not sure if I can rule out issues with transmission fluid.

However on a few occasions I have noticed that it did not change into a lower gear when it should have changed and it felt for a moment as if I was running out of power before it kicked down to change i.e. I am on the motorway and it would feel as if I was coasting in neutral.  Same sometimes if on a slight incline.

Fluid is an easy place to start, is it topped up, is it clean. If it’s topped up, does it make the problem less/go away?

 

At least it’s one you can check at home and eliminate before deciding it’s a bigger issue/challenge 

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I cannot get a booking until 16th June however in the meantime I downloaded another app and in addition to the P0741 fault code it is also showing a P0675 fault code which is showing an issue with cylinder 5 glow plug.  I did notice in the morning on start up the glow plug icon was staying lit for a bit longer than normal, but once moving it would disappear and only show up again when I started the vehicle.

I am now wondering if the glow plug could be causing both fault codes?  I am not sure how much a Jeep dealer would charge to replace a glow plug as I think the car needs to re-programmed after replacing the glow plug?  I don't know?

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We live in Worcester.  Are there any decent independents Jeep mechanics within a reasonable driving distance?

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Reply to Surfer :-

'The transmission fluid was supposed to have been changed at its service in Oct 2020 less than 12000 miles ago by the Jeep dealership.  Vehicle mileage is now 72400 miles.  Not sure if I can rule out issues with transmission fluid.'

The cynic in me says - was it actually changed?  Wouldn't be the first time charged for something that hasn't actually been done! 

Glow plugs - most are easy to change, depends on engine and layout. Any competent mechanic/technician should be able to do it. Buy on line but make sure you get the correct voltage. Take one out to check markings. As far as I am aware, nothing needs re-programming, but I could be wrong? Mine didn't, (KJ 2.8CRD), and because one was a pig to get at, I didn't change all 4, just one that was faulty, and that was 2 years ago!

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jerryg said:

Reply to Surfer :-

'The transmission fluid was supposed to have been changed at its service in Oct 2020 less than 12000 miles ago by the Jeep dealership.  Vehicle mileage is now 72400 miles.  Not sure if I can rule out issues with transmission fluid.'

The cynic in me says - was it actually changed?  Wouldn't be the first time charged for something that hasn't actually been done! 

Glow plugs - most are easy to change, depends on engine and layout. Any competent mechanic/technician should be able to do it. Buy on line but make sure you get the correct voltage. Take one out to check markings. As far as I am aware, nothing needs re-programming, but I could be wrong? Mine didn't, (KJ 2.8CRD), and because one was a pig to get at, I didn't change all 4, just one that was faulty, and that was 2 years ago!

 

 

On my 2005 WK2 when they changed the glow plug, I kept getting a message regarding a software update.  I queried it with the Jeep dealership who is well known and recommended on this forum and was told that the new plug has to be reprogrammed at a cost of about £100 and this was back in 2017.  Didn't want to pay that sort of money at the time so left it and after about a month the message went away.

Our nearest Jeep dealer is in Hereford so a 50 mile round trip.  Cost in fuel about £21 and they can look at the Jeep on 16th June. I have not read any feedback on Jeep in Hereford.  They charge about £95 an hour however Westbury who are are 90 mile round trip charge just under £70 an hour.  Cost in fuel is about £36 so a £16 difference and Westbury have a good reputation however they cna only do it on 21st June.  They did repairs on my previous WK2 Jeep and I was happy with the repairs.

The Jeep although almost 10 years old has a full Jeep service history plus up to now all repairs have been done by Jeep dealership.  We tow a caravan with the Jeep and are on booked holidays at end of month so a bit of a panic!

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Our Jeep Grand Cherokee is at a franchised Jeep dealer and they have stated that the Engine Management Light is showing because of a faulty glow plug and have quoted £338 for all 6 to be changed.  I am not 100% sure if this will stop EML coming on, but they are the experts.

The dealer has also quoted £580 for front discs and pads to be changed due to wear, however I am sure I can get those changed locally at a much lower price.

However they also stated that Oil cap weeping cap extension from timing cover and a replacement is £97.97 which seems to be a bit on the high side?  Not being a mechanic I have no idea what this cap is and where it is located.

Lastly they mention that there is a substantial amount of ATF around base of Bell housing and transmission sump and it requires
further investigation.  The transmission fluid was replaced by another franchised Jeep dealer in Sept 2020 so maybe they made a mess as no idea what they do to remove the old fluid?  No mention of condition of fluid or fluid level?

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Ask how much the labour and component charges are for changing the one faulty plug and what it would be to change all six. You can then decide if you want to be proactive and have them all changed or accept the risk that you may have to do this job again if another fails. If one replacement glow plug fixes the EML then replacing more isn't a repair, it's risk management. The primary objective for this repair is to cure the EML condition. I am not familiar with your engine but I would think it reasonable to replace the known faulty glow pug, clear the DTC and retest to check that the trouble code does not reoccur.

 

If your brakes are still OK, get another quote before agreeing to proceed.

 

Typically, ATF is drained from the transmission drain plug or by removing the sump pan. Some transmissions are filled from a fill plug on the side of the transmission or from the dipstick tube. Filling is usually less messy from the dipstick tube but it is easy to overfill and cause a spillage if it has a fill plug. A good mechanic will clean up the mess, degrease it and dry it off with clean paper towel so that spotting a leak is easier. A better mechanic will clean the affected areas before removing any parts in order to prevent internal contamination and leave it clean and dry on completion.

 

Before and after photographs of the work will show the next technician what it looked like before. Photos are useful for spotting changes to condition over time.

 

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Many thanks.  We had the same issue on a previous Jeep and for months afterwards kept getting error messages which is why I decided it would be best to change all 6 on the CRD 3.0L engine.

The front discs and pads were changed 35000 miles ago in 2016 and we used the Jeep for towing the caravan.  They started grinding about 2 weeks ago so probably are shot.  I am getting them done locally with Brembo discs and Pagid pads for half price. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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The jeep dealership did the diagnostics and came up with the same fault codes.  I was advsied that glow plug 5 was faulty.  Why is it always no 5?  I agreed to have all the glow plugs changed to resolve the flat spot issue. 

 

Got the Jeep back from dealership and on the way home I got that flat spot issue again.  It only happened once on the return journey of about 25 miles.  It is noticeable when approaching a slight incline and it seems that the Jeep is slow to change down.  However the issue can happen on a perfectly flat stretch of road whether or not the cruise control is engaged.

Anyway dealer has agreed to taking the Jeep back for another inspection next month.  The problem is so intermittent and random that one cannot be specific about when it will happen.

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I can understand how a glow plug fault will affect starting, particularly when the engine and ambient temperature are cold but I don't know why a glow plug fault would cause a loss in performance on a running engine at normal operating temperature. The only things I could come up with are:

  • Glow plug is always on causing earlier detonation of the fuel air mixture which counteracts the compression stroke.
  • Early detonation could also be a fuel injector leaking into the cylinder
  • A sooted glow plug could be a leaking fuel injector, piston ring, valve, valve guide, valve oil seal problem
  • A glow plug controller fault could cause the glow plug to stay on when it should be off
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Glow plugs are sometimes used to increase cylinder temperature for dpf regeneration, which is possibly why the dealer thought it's causing the hesitation. 

 

Another couple of possibilities:

It may be slow responding or clogged egr valve, especially if you've been cruising and then add slightly more throttle... 

If you wanted to play parts darts, an under performing air flow meter could also be the culprit, but unlike our LR counterparts I believe they are quite expensive on these. 🤪

 

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