Ludders Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, Caroline12 said: Very True V, I test drove a Wrangler from Snows Southampton and was told the Wrangler in the showroom could not be driven due to the second battery under the main battery had failed, from new. This battery is a special battery and only Jeep make. It was on a 6 week wait for the battery from the USA. This raised alarm bells immediately, 6 week wait for a brand new Jeep with a failed special extra battery. That scared me. Which goes to show how little they know! The "special battery" is just an Aux14 AGM motorcycle battery, available from most good battery retailers. I'm hoping to squeeze in a slightly larger ctx20 variant when mine fails. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Caroline12 said: the Wrangler in the showroom could not be driven due to the second battery under the main battery had failed, from new. This battery is a special battery and only Jeep make. It was on a 6 week wait for the battery from the USA. I didn't see Ludders earlier post about the motorcycle battery when I wrote the following... I am astonished that this second hidden battery 'feature' is not a standardised battery available worldwide. Add that to the list of whys: Why does the Wrangler need a second battery in the first place? Why does the second battery have to be hidden? Why doesn't the second battery have a prominent isolator switch? Why can't the Wrangler be driven if the second battery fails - does it need a third battery as an emergency spare? Why doesn't the second battery have a split charge system with an independent charge controller? Why would the design team deliberately incorporate a vulnerability for no obvious gain? Why didn't Jeep do the second battery thing properly to provide a battery big enough for an electric winch? My guess is that the Jeep dealer probably disconnected the main battery hoping that it would preserve it due to lack of use (not being driven everyday). They didn't know about the hidden second battery at that point. Disconnecting the main battery without isolating the second battery completely discharged the second battery. They know about the second battery now. Perhaps the Jeep needs a visible warning sticker about the second battery and the replacement type on the underside of the hood above the battery. XJ Cherokees had a sticker warning mechanics not to use 20mm oil filters. Edited May 18, 2022 by V 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludders Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 42 minutes ago, V said: I didn't see Ludders earlier post about the motorcycle battery when I wrote the following... I am astonished that this second hidden battery 'feature' is not a standardised battery available worldwide. Add that to the list of whys: Why does the Wrangler need a second battery in the first place? Why does the second battery have to be hidden? Why doesn't the second battery have a prominent isolator switch? Why can't the Wrangler be driven if the second battery fails - does it need a third battery as an emergency spare? Why doesn't the second battery have a split charge system with an independent charge controller? Why would the design team deliberately incorporate a vulnerability for no obvious gain? Why didn't Jeep do the second battery thing properly to provide a battery big enough for an electric winch? My guess is that the Jeep dealer probably disconnected the main battery hoping that it would preserve it due to lack of use (not being driven everyday). They didn't know about the hidden second battery at that point. Disconnecting the main battery without isolating the second battery completely discharged the second battery. They know about the second battery now. Perhaps the Jeep needs a visible warning sticker about the second battery and the replacement type on the underside of the hood above the battery. XJ Cherokees had a sticker warning mechanics not to use 20mm oil filters. I believe they borrowed the Mercedes system for the stop start. I haven't seen the wiring diagrams, but based on what I know: The secondary or auxiliary battery is on a split charge, it is only connected when the ignition is on. (Otherwise you'd have 2 dissimilar batteries of different sizes and chemistries trying to leech off each other). It's sole purpose is to provide a steady voltage to the critical ignition circuits when the vehicle is in a stop/start scenario. What the designers hadn't envisaged is the vehicle needs a working auxiliary battery to keep the main ignition circuits alive, the system isn't capable of running on main battery alone... Probably just a missed sub routine in the under bonnet power supply controller, but by the time they realised it was to late to fix using software alone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 Using a modern Wrangler for an expedition would be risky if it couldn't be started without the second battery. You would have to carry a third battery as a spare. Is there no jump start process for the second battery? I hate stop start systems, particularly on turbo charged engines. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member jeepstertim Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 There is a fuse box hack that shorts across 2 of the posts that allows the vehicle to run with a dead/ removed aux battery. A short (2") cable can bridge the 2 posts. JL/ JTs can be jumped in this manner - Youtube has videos. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 I wouldn't buy any car with stop/start. I have a number of friends who have had this on various makes which gave them more trouble than they were worth. I'm not repeating what I've posted before, other than to say ,many cars are less economical , engine size for engine size, than they used to be in my opinion. All in the best interests of emissions! Yet my MOT provider is astounded every year with the low emissions my jeeps register!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Raakhee Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 My 2014 Clio has the stop start function but has a button to turn it off permanently. My Renegade also has a button to turn off this annoying function, however has to be done on each start up. I'm my experience, this feature is a waste of my time, considering the amount of roundabouts and traffic lights around me. At least it's non functioning when the battery is below 70% which is some respite. I'm not looking forward to have to maintain 2 batteries on the JL . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Mike WK2 Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 That’s interesting, on our Renegade I have just pushed the button once to disable it when we drove off the forecourt have never had to touch it again I wander what happens if you just pull the fuse for the start stop control 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Caroline12 Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Ludders said: Which goes to show how little they know! The "special battery" is just an Aux14 AGM motorcycle battery, available from most good battery retailers. I'm hoping to squeeze in a slightly larger ctx20 variant when mine fails. Battery info is good to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Caroline12 Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 4 hours ago, digger said: I wouldn't buy any car with stop/start. I have a number of friends who have had this on various makes which gave them more trouble than they were worth. I'm not repeating what I've posted before, other than to say ,many cars are less economical , engine size for engine size, than they used to be in my opinion. All in the best interests of emissions! Yet my MOT provider is astounded every year with the low emissions my jeeps register!!! I’m not a fan of start stop either, especially when your looking to pull out. I get why it was introduced. I always forget to turn it off when off-roading, then remember to when it turns off during an obstacle one thing I do know, is it knackered your starter motor quicker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Raakhee Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Caroline12 said: I’m not a fan of start stop either, especially when your looking to pull out. I get why it was introduced. I always forget to turn it off when off-roading, then remember to when it turns off during an obstacle one thing I do know, is it knackered your starter motor quicker I've pretty much got a routine. Pull gear stick into drive, turn off stop start and push the e-brake and then drive off. Off roading I tend to leave my Jeep running most times so dont need to disengage it often. Security in knowing that it won't get knicked on a private site Obviously it's in Park with the e-brake engaged and I do watch it's not gonna roll off 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Raakhee Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Mike WK2 said: That’s interesting, on our Renegade I have just pushed the button once to disable it when we drove off the forecourt have never had to touch it again I wander what happens if you just pull the fuse for the start stop control I think older models have this function to turn off permanently. My 2019 model does not 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted May 18, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 18, 2022 Back to the same old argument for me, why do we have to pay for something we don't want or need? I tried to disconnect that damn warning bleeper on mine, it wasn't having any of that! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted May 19, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted May 19, 2022 So - great news (one hopes) - both batteries verified and fully charged and the garage has been testing Hank on a daily basis and as per their update all seems to be working. I am flying home tonight (US) and land in the UK tomorrow AM - so have something to look forward (pick up the car in the morning. Just in Case Jeep CS has extended the car rental of my replacement until Monday "just in case of further issues" (I do wonder if I should be worried or they are just being nice LOL Hopefully this will be the end of it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member spookie the aardvark Posted May 19, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 19, 2022 3 hours ago, MGomes said: So - great news (one hopes) - both batteries verified and fully charged and the garage has been testing Hank on a daily basis and as per their update all seems to be working. I am flying home tonight (US) and land in the UK tomorrow AM - so have something to look forward (pick up the car in the morning. Just in Case Jeep CS has extended the car rental of my replacement until Monday "just in case of further issues" (I do wonder if I should be worried or they are just being nice LOL Hopefully this will be the end of it! Nice one Manny I will keep my fingers crossed for you Looks like you will have Hank for Speedfest no need for "Plan B" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member digger Posted May 19, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 19, 2022 Good luck with it ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted May 19, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 hours ago, digger said: Good luck with it ! Its the make or break moment!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member Mike WK2 Posted May 20, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 20, 2022 Fingers crossed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted May 20, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Mike WK2 said: Fingers crossed Hank is now home and no issues on the 35 miles drive home 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted May 20, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted May 20, 2022 Of course I will be watching the car for a bit, but we must put the positives as well… So Pewsham Jeep, VERY small dealer, no new Wranglers on the forecourt, but in 3 weeks they fixed an issue that was pending since October last year… They kept me updated, actually did troubleshooting and even admitted fault when they did not check the aux battery on the car before giving it to me (we all make mistakes, but I respect honesty)… let’s hope that in 3 months I am not crying, but I do have hope that they actually sorted the issues with the car… 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member TimC Posted May 20, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) On 16/05/2022 at 09:14, MGomes said: So an update from Jeep CS on Friday evening! It seems that they did find an issue with one of the batteries in Hank that as per the dealer would have caused the errors when I went to pick up the car last week… they are “testing” it currently and we’re hoping for me to collect it tomorrow all going well… I am traveling to NJ for a flying visit to HQ so won’t be able to pick Hank up until Friday AM, giving them ample testing time to verify the issue was the battery… Somehow I am hopeful as the approach from this dealership has been more technical (i.e. they actually did troubleshooting with the car) - time will tell if we have a decent Jeep workshop in the Southwest? Just been down our local dealer today and they had a nice Storm Jeeps Wrangler JLU Sahara in parked up next to mine. Apparently it was in for what sounds like a very similar issue with the aux battery. The impression I got was that it was "that battery issue" again, like it was a known problem. Good luck with the Jeep by the way. Edited May 20, 2022 by TimC 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted May 20, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 hours ago, TimC said: Just been down our local dealer today and they had a nice Storm Jeeps Wrangler JLU Sahara in parked up next to mine. Apparently it was in for what sounds like a very similar issue with the aux battery. The impression I got was that it was "that battery issue" again, like it was a known problem. Good luck with the Jeep by the way. I have heard a few… one can hope, main issue was the previous dealership refused to do anything… Thank you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member BLUE STAR Posted May 21, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 21, 2022 I believe the secondary battery resides under the TIPM and requires removal to get access oh joy ! Just wondering if keeping the main battery regularly charged up, say every couple of weeks with an external charger will also do the same with the secondary battery ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member MGomes Posted May 21, 2022 Author Platinum Member Share Posted May 21, 2022 2 hours ago, BLUE STAR said: I believe the secondary battery resides under the TIPM and requires removal to get access oh joy ! Just wondering if keeping the main battery regularly charged up, say every couple of weeks with an external charger will also do the same with the secondary battery ? That is a good question, I would assume so, I have heard stories about dealers telii lol by owners they don’t drive the car to much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Member V Posted May 21, 2022 Platinum Member Share Posted May 21, 2022 I think you should ask Jeep CS if it possible to use a battery maintainer on the hidden battery and if so how? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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