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Should Jeep dealers be specially qualified to sell and support the Wrangler model?


V

Should Jeep dealers be specially qualified to sell and support the Wrangler model?  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Jeep dealers be specially qualified to sell and support the Wrangler model?

    • NO: Any franchised Jeep dealer should be automatically qualified to sell and support the Wrangler model.
      5
    • YES: Only Jeep dealers that have the minimum number of sales and support staff that have passed a special off-road awareness qualification for the Wrangler can sell and support the Wrangler model.
      12


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For nearly thirty years, owners of new Jeep vehicles in the UK have faced challenges dealing with certain Jeep dealerships that do not like their customers driving off road while the vehicle is in warranty. Presumably, this is based on ignorance of the product's capabilities and could quite easily be fixed by Jeep UK introducing off-road specific product training and certification.

 

Although, most 4x4 Jeep models have the capability to be used off road, it is the Wrangler owner that is most likely do so while the vehicle is in warranty. A special qualification to sell and support the Wrangler would signal to all other model owners that the dealer was off-road aware and they would not be subjected to unreasonable customer service if they choose to drive their Jeep off road while under warranty.

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I voted no.  My reasoning is twofold.

 

First, if the Wrangler is a significant part of the Jeep sales mix then all dealers should be able to serve customers.  This is not a specialist derivative, it is bread and butter Jeep.  Jeep should be ensuring all their dealers are appropriately resourced.  Anything else is a cop out.

 

Second, a recent poster has said it is a two hour round trip to visit their nearest dealer.  I have to be honest, if I was an hour from the nearest dealer I would not buy a new car from that brand.  If this proposal were implemented that could become a 2 hour, 3 hour, 4 hour... drive for a sefvice.

Edited by UKTJ
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That's an interesting viewpoint. Over the years there have been Jeep dealers that have come and gone without ever selling a Wrangler or had technicians that had ever worked on one. I had the experience of taking my TJ to one for a steering box under warranty. It wasn't very comforting to find out that the technician doing the work had only ever done rack and pinion steering before. Why should a dealer invest in training for a product that they are unlikely to ever sell and unwilling to support properly?

 

I agree, driving more than an hour for a service is ridiculous. It wasn't always like this. Daimler-Chrysler had a bloodletting around 2005, FCA had a cull ten years later and what is left is amazingly sparse. I guess it all depends on how important Jeep thinks that Wrangler sales are for the brand as a whole. Perhaps Jeep will create a commercial opportunity for independent Wrangler specialists to become franchised Wrangler specialists to plug the gaps.

 

Consider this, which Jeep dealerships would not send staff for training to acquire an accreditation to sell and support Wranglers? Which of them don't care if they ever sell or support one now? How many UK Jeep dealers are really car dealers operating as a 'JINO' (Jeep-in-name-only)? As an owner of a Wrangler still with a manufacturer's warranty, would you want to have your Jeep serviced and repaired by one of these dealers just because they were near?

 

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I voted yes. Any vehicle being serviced in or out of warranty should be worked on by someone competent enough to understand the vehicle capabilities. If you sell a product and offer servicing you should know about the product. 

I personally have not had issues at servicing but the situation that @MGomes is going through is beyond ridiculous. Asking if your Rubicon has been near mud and water and using that as a reason to not even check the vehicle is out of order. This is the UK. It rains often. 

Edited by Raakhee
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years ago, when i was a apprentice car mechanic ( 5 years apprenticeship, not the current 6 months), i started off working at a Citroen dealership, all the mechanics and apprentices were sent to Slough for training courses, these were model  specific, i did 3 courses, as did all the other workshop staff, that way we had several mechanics that were qualified on each model, Jeep could do 1 course that covered "trail rated vehicles", that way it is not just specific to JL's, as other models are "trail rated" as well.  

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Interesting subject, I think the problem is more a generic issue in the UK, rather than a Jeep issue. As my experience is regardless of Brand the situation is the same. Either driven by lack of knowledge or time the answer rarely seems to be anything other than computer says replace item A, done that fault not repaired. 
 

I believe we suffer nowadays from a lack of true mechanics, ( and I do not class myself as one - at best I’m a hobby mechanic 😆😆

 

just a couple of examples 

 

VW Amarok- purchased soon after brought out in the UK, as part of the sales pitch I was taken out for a day in the car on their off road course. Shortly after had an issue on site with stones getting trapped between the lower control arm and the disc . Herendious noise but more importantly effected the steering as the disc could not swivel around the arm. VW UK response on email - the vehicle is not designed to go off road. Solved the problem myself. 
 

Ford Ranger Wildtrack Auto - 6 weeks at Ford’s with auto gearbox issues ( sporadically would change out of 3rd. ) it was obviously an electrical issue without boring everyone with the details. After 6 weeks went to the garage and was told the Ranger Master tech had been working on it for weeks but because I had fitted after market beacons they couldn’t be certain that the volt readings where correct and that was the reason for delay with the  repair ( 😆😆😆😆 ) so after another argument about me being allowed on the work shop floor, I walked up-to the car, pulled the cigarette plug out that was feeding the beacons. And asked if that qualified me as a master tech. It was simply a trapped cable under the centre console. 
 

What we need is true mechanics that have the experience, knowledge and time that can actually diagnose and repair. Rather than just unbolt and bolt up a part that the computer has told them to. 
 

That’s my Tuesday morning rant over 😆😆, I thought blue Monday was yesterday. 

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There are some incredibly valid points in this topic, from different people with different backgrounds and different levels of knowledge on cars / life work experience etc. - What unite us is this passion for a brand and a hobby - and a challenge, having our cars serviced but qualified mechanics, that understand the machine and the hobby. I am sure most of us (that like me are no mechanics) would be happy to pay for proactive servicing on our cars, even if this would costs a bit more and it would mean that we would have them in the shop periodically...

With an Ops Management background I can actually imagine a product where cars would be taken to the workshop once quarte, for a deep clean, check on sensors / wheel / gear box and all the "loose parts"  that an off roader need to checked so that it works properly.... "an Automotive Manage Services", with a subscription service so you maintain your customers (if happy with the service) - I wonder why brands like Jeep, LR or Ineos (as they are coming) do not do something like this...

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I worked briefly in sales at a Triumph Motorcycle dealership, the techs had to go on a course for every bike (or closely related family of bikes).

There are quite a few Triumphs that are 'adventure' bikes and we expected them to get covered in mud and be ridden hard off-road. I once sold one to a motorcycle cop who was an advanced motorcycle instructor and off-road instructor. He took the demo bike out and came back after an hour with it plastered in mud up to the tank. It took an hour to clean it again, but he bought it. And spread the word, I sold three more as a result.

On Jeep's website right now, the ad for the Wrangler says 'Off-road, urban adventure, winding mountain path? The Jeep Wrangler has serious 4x4 credentials and the capability to take them all on. Plenty of beach, sand, dirt track, puddle splashing, fields etc. in the pictures too.

I voted yes, but I think every dealership should be capable of supporting the Wrangler - unless they're heading the Range Rover way, more bland cars that look the same and not intended (capability or not) to be punished off-road.

Edited by Fourpot
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12 hours ago, V said:

That's an interesting viewpoint. Over the years there have been Jeep dealers that have come and gone without ever selling a Wrangler or had technicians that had ever worked on one. I had the experience of taking my TJ to one for a steering box under warranty. It wasn't very comforting to find out that the technician doing the work had only ever done rack and pinion steering before. Why should a dealer invest in training for a product that they are unlikely to ever sell and unwilling to support properly?

 

I agree, driving more than an hour for a service is ridiculous. It wasn't always like this. Daimler-Chrysler had a bloodletting around 2005, FCA had a cull ten years later and what is left is amazingly sparse. I guess it all depends on how important Jeep thinks that Wrangler sales are for the brand as a whole. Perhaps Jeep will create a commercial opportunity for independent Wrangler specialists to become franchised Wrangler specialists to plug the gaps.

 

Consider this, which Jeep dealerships would not send staff for training to acquire an accreditation to sell and support Wranglers? Which of them don't care if they ever sell or support one now? How many UK Jeep dealers are really car dealers operating as a 'JINO' (Jeep-in-name-only)? As an owner of a Wrangler still with a manufacturer's warranty, would you want to have your Jeep serviced and repaired by one of these dealers just because they were near?

 

Maybe my assumption that Wranglers are a material part of the UK sales mix for Jeep is mistaken.  I might try and look for some data online.

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The last time I had any knowledge on the “Jeep sales numbers” - and yes, we have discussed this before - the Wrangler numbers sold in the UK were very small. In the USA they were selling 150-200,000 per annum. In the UK it was struggling to get to 500‼️
 

I personally struggled to find Jeep dealers with a working understanding of the “Wrangler” … most local to me just said “have you tried Horsham?”. So I went and bought one from them … and had it serviced by them for 5 years UNTIL they closed last year due to Covid (apparently). It was 1.5 hours each way … but I trusted them to understand my JKUR.

Now I go to Alex at Buzz - still about 1.5hours away (or more depending on how the traffic behaves). As most of you know he is not a “dealer” as such … but his knowledge and expertise are priceless AND he is also very friendly and willing to do the Jeep chat 😎

 

How to answer the poll question set by V❓
My own belief is that a franchise dealer should know how service & maintain all the vehicles it sells. However, in the real world we now live in, I can see that a trail-rated / off-road vehicle - which are being sold in very low numbers - will present difficulties to the computer dominated cars on sale. But should it?

 

My local “around-the-corner” outfit have helped me out on a number of occasions - these are 2 old school mechanics + one apprentice - and they service ALL cars … “it’s just a vehicle Kerry”. They do tend to struggle with brand specific diagnostics … and I guess they probably don’t work on too many vehicles in warranty. But it’s a refreshing attitude. 
 

I’ll sleep on it and vote tomorrow. 

 

 

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From what I can see on jeep.co.uk, there are 46 UK dealers. This includes 1 in Northern Ireland, 1 on the Isle of Man, 1 in Wales, 0 in Scotland, 43 in England. Looking at howmanyleft.co.uk I estimate that there were 535 new Wrangler registrations in 2021. That is an average of nearly 12 vehicles per dealer in 2021. One Wrangler per month per dealer.

 

For ease of calculation, assuming the sales distribution across the UK is uniform and warranty is 3-years, each dealer would have 36 Wrangler customers in warranty. Also assuming 6 monthly servicing, that means there would be 72 Wrangler service appointments a year, 1.4 per week. If you add to that warranty work, lets say 3-days per Jeep during the entire warranty period (1 day per year), and 4 Wranglers could be serviced by one technician in a single workday. The technician days per year is =

(36 Wranglers x 1 warranty day) + (72 service / 4 per day) = 54 work days on Wranglers out of 250 workdays per year. That's 22% of a technician's time spent working on Wranglers.

 

Is that enough work to justify training one technician to a special Wrangler standard at every dealer? If the dealer is not selling a Wrangler every month then that technician's workload will be smaller.

 

Lets look at 3 Wrangler sales per year. Three years warranty x 3 Wrangler sales annually = 9 Wrangler customers in warranty. 18 services per year. 9 warranty days.

(9 Wranglers x 1 warranty day) + (18 services / 4 per day) = 13.5 work days on Wranglers out of 250 workdays per year. Down to 5% of a technician's time spent on Wranglers.

 

If there are no warranty issues, that time is even less. A Jeep dealer that sells 4 Wranglers a month can easily justify two Wrangler specialists on their staff, 2 per month, 1 specialist lower than that and hmm...

 

 

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12 hours ago, V said:

From what I can see on jeep.co.uk, there are 46 UK dealers. This includes 1 in Northern Ireland, 1 on the Isle of Man, 1 in Wales, 0 in Scotland, 43 in England. Looking at howmanyleft.co.uk I estimate that there were 535 new Wrangler registrations in 2021. That is an average of nearly 12 vehicles per dealer in 2021. One Wrangler per month per dealer.

 

For ease of calculation, assuming the sales distribution across the UK is uniform and warranty is 3-years, each dealer would have 36 Wrangler customers in warranty. Also assuming 6 monthly servicing, that means there would be 72 Wrangler service appointments a year, 1.4 per week. If you add to that warranty work, lets say 3-days per Jeep during the entire warranty period (1 day per year), and 4 Wranglers could be serviced by one technician in a single workday. The technician days per year is =

(36 Wranglers x 1 warranty day) + (72 service / 4 per day) = 54 work days on Wranglers out of 250 workdays per year. That's 22% of a technician's time spent working on Wranglers.

 

Is that enough work to justify training one technician to a special Wrangler standard at every dealer? If the dealer is not selling a Wrangler every month then that technician's workload will be smaller.

 

Lets look at 3 Wrangler sales per year. Three years warranty x 3 Wrangler sales annually = 9 Wrangler customers in warranty. 18 services per year. 9 warranty days.

(9 Wranglers x 1 warranty day) + (18 services / 4 per day) = 13.5 work days on Wranglers out of 250 workdays per year. Down to 5% of a technician's time spent on Wranglers.

 

If there are no warranty issues, that time is even less. A Jeep dealer that sells 4 Wranglers a month can easily justify two Wrangler specialists on their staff, 2 per month, 1 specialist lower than that and hmm...

 

 

Could you sort out my accounts for me please? 😂

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Not sure where to post this really, there seem to be a few threads going about how terrible service is for Wranglers. Anyhow, I opted for here.

 

I just wanted to say that, in my experience, there are some good ones out there, it’s not all bad. My local dealer has one good Wrangler tech (also @Overlander21 called Martin) and the service manager who understand Wranglers. They have, however, been doing them for years, since we bought our first XJ (don’t know if you remember/came across Mylton’s Jeep who used to be in MyltonErnest @V?). They aren’t immune from making mistakes, we are all only human, but when they do they are pretty good at putting them right straight away without argument and don’t quibble over warranties. My JK is fairly heavily modified and can go in there covered in mud and it never fazes them.

 

Jeep seem to be pushing the JL much more than the JK in the UK which means there are more dealers who haven’t really come across them too much. Most dealers just want to sell you the car……🤔, actually they don’t even really care about selling the car, they want to sell you the finance package. That’s just the way it is these days, I think that if you buy a Wrangler in this country you have to accept that, if you can’t do the work yourself, you may have to shop around a bit to find somebody who knows their stuff…..otherwise go buy a VW Golf.

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39 minutes ago, TimC said:

That’s just the way it is these days, I think that if you buy a Wrangler in this country you have to accept that, if you can’t do the work yourself, you may have to shop around a bit to find somebody who knows their stuff…..otherwise go buy a VW Golf.

Hopefully, that will change and it will become easier for Wrangler owners, and off road drivers to find the best support at their nearest Jeep dealer.

 

I guess it depends on how significant Jeep UK consider customer experience to be on brand loyalty (or the family of Stellantis brands) for their next purchase or lease.

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As a newbie to the Jeep marque I don't feel experienced enough to vote on this one. 
 

Also, after 30+ years of driving the Wrangler is my first ever brand new car, so this doesn't qualify me from an experience point of view either 😊

 

However!

 

Quote

Should Jeep dealers be specially qualified to sell and support the Wrangler model?

 

My two nearest dealers are each a two hour round trip away (one north, one south).  If this were to happen I dread to think what my journey time would look like.  And I don't really live in the middle of nowhere either.

 

However (again)!

 

I would probably be willing to travel further to a dealership that was fully trained / experienced in the Wrangler and have the confidence that they know what they're doing with my pride and joy, than visit a local dealer that had never even seen one before.

 

 

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I decided I can’t vote on this the poll … unless I can add the options together 😎

 

I believe that all Jeep dealers should be able to sell and service/maintain Wranglers (and other trail rated Jeeps) … BUT ONLY IF THEY ARE TRAINED & EDUCATED to enable them to do this properly. My idea of “customer service”. 
 

PS just to clarify … all the Jeep dealers should be made to do this ie it should be part of their requirements to be a Jeep dealer … and this should be lead by the manufacturer.

Edited by Maverick23
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2 minutes ago, Maverick23 said:

I decided I can’t vote on this the poll … unless I can add the options together 😎

 

I believe that all Jeep dealers should be able to sell and service/maintain Wranglers (and other trail rated Jeeps) … BUT ONLY IF THEY ARE TRAINED & EDUCATED to enable them to do this properly. My idea of “customer service”. 

So this is more of a YES answer than a no. If such a qualification was introduced, there is nothing stopping all Jeep dealers achieving it. However, the post I did earlier about Wrangler work days may make it visible that some dealers may not think the qualification is important. If the total number of their Wrangler customers with vehicles still in warranty is too low to be important to them, it may be seen as something outside of their core business expertise.

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2 minutes ago, V said:

So this is more of a YES answer than a no. If such a qualification was introduced, there is nothing stopping all Jeep dealers achieving it. However, the post I did earlier about Wrangler work days may make it visible that some dealers may not think the qualification is important. If the total number of their Wrangler customers with vehicles still in warranty is too low to be important to them, it may be seen as something outside of their core business expertise.


Yes … sort of V 😎

 

Did you see my edit to try and clarify my intent? In my opinion, it should be part of the basics of being a Jeep dealer … which would sort of be a “NO” in your poll … 🥴

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11 minutes ago, V said:

So this is more of a YES answer than a no. If such a qualification was introduced, there is nothing stopping all Jeep dealers achieving it. However, the post I did earlier about Wrangler work days may make it visible that some dealers may not think the qualification is important. If the total number of their Wrangler customers with vehicles still in warranty is too low to be important to them, it may be seen as something outside of their core business expertise.

Good try 🤣

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22 hours ago, V said:

From what I can see on jeep.co.uk, there are 46 UK dealers. This includes 1 in Northern Ireland, 1 on the Isle of Man, 1 in Wales, 0 in Scotland, 43 in England. Looking at howmanyleft.co.uk I estimate that there were 535 new Wrangler registrations in 2021. That is an average of nearly 12 vehicles per dealer in 2021. One Wrangler per month per dealer.

 

For ease of calculation, assuming the sales distribution across the UK is uniform and warranty is 3-years, each dealer would have 36 Wrangler customers in warranty. Also assuming 6 monthly servicing, that means there would be 72 Wrangler service appointments a year, 1.4 per week. If you add to that warranty work, lets say 3-days per Jeep during the entire warranty period (1 day per year), and 4 Wranglers could be serviced by one technician in a single workday. The technician days per year is =

(36 Wranglers x 1 warranty day) + (72 service / 4 per day) = 54 work days on Wranglers out of 250 workdays per year. That's 22% of a technician's time spent working on Wranglers.

 

Is that enough work to justify training one technician to a special Wrangler standard at every dealer? If the dealer is not selling a Wrangler every month then that technician's workload will be smaller.

 

Lets look at 3 Wrangler sales per year. Three years warranty x 3 Wrangler sales annually = 9 Wrangler customers in warranty. 18 services per year. 9 warranty days.

(9 Wranglers x 1 warranty day) + (18 services / 4 per day) = 13.5 work days on Wranglers out of 250 workdays per year. Down to 5% of a technician's time spent on Wranglers.

 

If there are no warranty issues, that time is even less. A Jeep dealer that sells 4 Wranglers a month can easily justify two Wrangler specialists on their staff, 2 per month, 1 specialist lower than that and hmm...

 

 

Well, I hope they are buying lots of Wranglers in Australia and Japan.  That volume does not support engineering right hand drive versions in future. 🤔

Edited by UKTJ
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Wrangler sales this decade are fairly bouyant. The last few years of the TJ dipped quite a bit, I think it was as low as 50 sold one year.

 

Jeep has produced RHD JK Wranglers for the US market. Once-upon-a-time they made a purpose designed Jeep for postal workers, the DJ. After that it was cheaper to make a RHD version of an existing model and benefit from selling it to other markets. I think Jeep will be keeping a watchful eye on Ineos once they start selling Grenadiers in the USA. The only competition Jeep has for rural postal Jeeps is itself at the moment with lots of posties hanging on to their RHD XJs for as long as possible.

 

Xh5p1C_cBeusuUvVH3eNDfq7o3TVJMZNcQhAbeyZ

 

I don't know if the RHD Gladiator Sport model for the USA was introduced.

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My Jeep is a WK2, so I can't comment on Wrangler experiences. But it took me 3 attempts to find a dealer I would trust with my car, the first 2 (pentagon, which no longer hold the franchise) were terrible. 

 

I had a fair shouting match with one of them that the service checklist that was full of ticks was also full of lies. I'd had a quick look at my car before I left the dealership and several basic jobs hadn't been done.

 Such as rotate the wheels, top up the adblue, replace the cabin pollen filter.....

 

One of the service managers attempted excuses was that "we don't see many Grand Cherokees so our technicians aren't as familiar with them"

 

I shot him down in flames and had them redo the entire service while I watched over the whole process.

 

So perhaps it's not just a Wrangler problem.

 

The dealer I now use, Stonacre have been spot on, I had a chat about the fact that I've got AT tyres and recovery points on my Jeep with the workshop manager and tech, they were surprised and pleased that one of them gets used offroad.

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4 hours ago, Fireman Iain said:

I shot him down in flames and had them redo the entire service while I watched over the whole process.

 

So perhaps it's not just a Wrangler problem.

 

The dealer I now use, Stonacre have been spot on, I had a chat about the fact that I've got AT tyres and recovery points on my Jeep with the workshop manager and tech, they were surprised and pleased that one of them gets used offroad.

Wow! I hope that was an unusual experience for most of their customers. Good for you to get the result that you wanted while you were there. Glad you have found a better dealer now.

 

From my experience, it's worth having a conversation with the actual technician that will be working on your Jeep when you drop it off. Try to follow up with the same technician when you collect it. If you are pleased with the work they have done you could tip them or just give some welcome praise. In some dealerships the technicians are only customer facing when they've done something wrong.

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On 20/01/2022 at 15:17, Fireman Iain said:

My Jeep is a WK2, so I can't comment on Wrangler experiences. But it took me 3 attempts to find a dealer I would trust with my car, the first 2 (pentagon, which no longer hold the franchise) were terrible. 

 

I had a fair shouting match with one of them that the service checklist that was full of ticks was also full of lies. I'd had a quick look at my car before I left the dealership and several basic jobs hadn't been done.

 Such as rotate the wheels, top up the adblue, replace the cabin pollen filter.....

 

One of the service managers attempted excuses was that "we don't see many Grand Cherokees so our technicians aren't as familiar with them"

 

I shot him down in flames and had them redo the entire service while I watched over the whole process.

 

So perhaps it's not just a Wrangler problem.

 

The dealer I now use, Stonacre have been spot on, I had a chat about the fact that I've got AT tyres and recovery points on my Jeep with the workshop manager and tech, they were surprised and pleased that one of them gets used offroad.

 

We have the 2012 GC Overland Summit 3L CRD and it seems that we have been using the same dealership?   We also had an issue with servicing that almost developed into a shouting match.  The dealership we used also sells other brands and I suspect now that these other brands get priority for training. 

Like you we use our Jeep mainly for towing and seldom venture off road.  One of the best towing vehicles we have ever had.  Only one major issue we had was when I did try to select the low ratio it came up with a fault message.  Apparently they never check the gears when it goes in for a servcie costing in excess of £400!

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