Caroline’s, Rubber Duck Jeep Renegade build

[spookie the aardvark]

I wonder how different things would be if car insurance wasn't compolsurary? We know that all sensible people would still get buy it, but I have a feeling that it might just become more competative

[spookie the aardvark]

10 hours ago, Caroline12 said:

I completely get what you mean, about the law and interpreting things. I have no issue with your comments.
in my career in the merchant navy with did international law for work, regulations, pollution etc, my degree (still doing) there is a lot of legal work to go through and legal points of view to consider. 

I did say “no” at first to professionally fitted eg: a garage, I explained this. Then I said “Yes, to professionally fitted and explained how I am qualified and gave my MIMechE status and membership number for reference for them. Giving them as little wiggle room as possible. Because I also know they will argue and spin things if they can. I wanted to them to accept It was professionally fitted as a mech engineer, as opposed to a (sorry if I upset anyone here not intented) a vehicle technician, who was paid to fit it, but not as qualified. 
do they require someone to be paid to fit it ? I don’t know ? Dad said if his garage was clear, I could have said fitted in a garage, professionally fitted  

I think my first step is to think, what other meaning or view point are they asking the questions. Eg: legal wiggle room and a like.

 

thank you for your comments, they are appreciated.
I did fully explain the situation and she sounded ok with that and wrote it all down. 

To be fair you did not lie to your insurance company and it is safe to say you are more qualified and experianced than some of the "so called professionals" that you would otherwise have to pay that work in a lot of garages (and I also include dealerships in that statement ) 

[Caroline12]

I have just spoken to NFU about my insurance.

 

I am allowed to fit the bull bar/light and lights with no extra cost to my premium.

 

my rock rail, suspension 1.5” lift and bar/lights are now fully covered on my insurance

 

very happy, legal and covered

[spookie the aardvark]

14 minutes ago, Caroline12 said:

I have just spoken to NFU about my insurance.

 

I am allowed to fit the bull bar/light and lights with no extra cost to my premium.

 

my rock rail, suspension 1.5” lift and bar/lights are now fully covered on my insurance

 

very happy, legal and covered

Great to hear it all got sorted out  and kinda quick too

Sounds like NFU is not bad as an insurance company

[Caroline12]

19 minutes ago, spookie the aardvark said:

Great to hear it all got sorted out  and kinda quick too

Sounds like NFU is not bad as an insurance company

Thanks Spookie I’m very happy with them

[spookie the aardvark]

7 minutes ago, Caroline12 said:

Thanks Spookie I’m very happy with them

Great news

[jerryg]

Green Laning? These are public highways maintained at public expense (or not!) therefore no additional insurance or declaration required?

But if you go 'off piste', that is 'off roading' then that's a different story. 

Also 'pay and play' sites. If you want cover then pay through the nose. Personally I don't bother, I 'self insure' ie if I damage my truck I'll take the risk. Standard insurance will cover basic 3rd party risks but not damage to your own truck. Site owners public liability insurance covers most eventualities. If I have this wrong please advise.

Regarding modifications and extras - Cornmarket (via IAM) not bothered unless it is 'performance enhancing', like chips, etc. So everything covered, and I have confirmation in writing, like suspension lifts, winches, mud tyres, tow bars, etc. You really do have to shop around and everyone's circumstances are different so one size does not fit all!

 

[spookie the aardvark]

24 minutes ago, jerryg said:

Green Laning? These are public highways maintained at public expense (or not!) therefore no additional insurance or declaration required?

But if you go 'off piste', that is 'off roading' then that's a different story. 

Also 'pay and play' sites. If you want cover then pay through the nose. Personally I don't bother, I 'self insure' ie if I damage my truck I'll take the risk. Standard insurance will cover basic 3rd party risks but not damage to your own truck. Site owners public liability insurance covers most eventualities. If I have this wrong please advise.

Regarding modifications and extras - Cornmarket (via IAM) not bothered unless it is 'performance enhancing', like chips, etc. So everything covered, and I have confirmation in writing, like suspension lifts, winches, mud tyres, tow bars, etc. You really do have to shop around and everyone's circumstances are different so one size does not fit all!

 

Another sensible voice of reason

[UKTJ]

1 hour ago, jerryg said:

 

Regarding modifications and extras - Cornmarket (via IAM) not bothered unless it is 'performance enhancing', like chips, etc. So everything covered, and I have confirmation in writing, like suspension lifts, winches, mud tyres, tow bars, etc. You really do have to shop around and everyone's circumstances are different so one size does not fit all!

 

I wonder if they consider a regear to be a 'performance enhancement'?

[digger]

Hi UKTJ,

Firstly I agree entirely with jerryg and ,indeed, do the same.

Second,  re regearing.   I can only tell you that you must be careful that you are comparing apples with apples when discussing insurance(see next para). Add to that ,when is a regear a regear? Many regears end up with a similar overall ratio to that which was  stock (and even those varied)!

In my case the Yj is insured as a classic. Ok this limits my annual mileage to 5k but that is no problem. However as far as mods are concerned my insurer is  not interested . They have comprehensively confirmed to me that there are major issues insuring  classics. In principle, any change ,even a non manufacturer  part, constitutes a modification. Many parts for many'classics' can no longer be obtained ! Second,especially, with a customisable make , it is often impossible to find out what the delivered spec was originally. Lastly they say as far as risk is concerned, classic owners generally really want to look after their cars. In my case ,I have exactly that point of view and 'like  jerry' if I cause damage off the public road  then I  take it on the chin!

[Caroline12]

4 minutes ago, digger said:

Hi UKTJ,

Firstly I agree entirely with jerryg and ,indeed, do the same.

Second,  re regearing.   I can only tell you that you must be careful that you are comparing apples with apples when discussing insurance(see next para). Add to that ,when is a regear a regear? Many regears end up with a similar overall ratio to that which was  stock (and even those varied)!

In my case the Yj is insured as a classic. Ok this limits my annual mileage to 5k but that is no problem. However as far as mods are concerned my insurer is  not interested . They have comprehensively confirmed to me that there are major issues insuring  classics. In principle, any change ,even a non manufacturer  part, constitutes a modification. Many parts for many'classics' can no longer be obtained ! Second,especially, with a customisable make , it is often impossible to find out what the delivered spec was originally. Lastly they say as far as risk is concerned, classic owners generally really want to look after their cars. In my case ,I have exactly that point of view and 'like  jerry' if I cause damage off the public road  then I  take it on the chin!

Please can you discuss these things in another thread please. This is not about my Jeep build. My build process is getting lost in other topics. This is not the place for this discussion.
discussion about topics that affect my Jeep are fine, not every off shot comment about anything. 
please be mindful, this is my Jeep build process, my story, not a general conversation on everything. 
I want to be able to look back on my journey of my Jeep, not have to Wade through lots of general random discussions about other things.

my story is getting lost in general chat. Please respect my thread for what it is.

thank you. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Caroline12
Expand answer

[jerryg]

There are 'rules of engagement' at p&p sites. You do not follow close behind another, you do not attempt a hill climb or descent until other vehicle has cleared the obstacle. We are, or should be, responsible adults. But in any event if I clobber you insurance will cover your losses but not mine, so it's down to me to avoid you and vice versa.

[jerryg]

Sorry Caroline, perhaps the moderators can separate out the non applicable posts and put in another thread? 

[Volant165]

14 hours ago, Caroline12 said:

I have just spoken to NFU about my insurance.

 

I am allowed to fit the bull bar/light and lights with no extra cost to my premium.

 

my rock rail, suspension 1.5” lift and bar/lights are now fully covered on my insurance

 

very happy, legal and covered

NFU have been great for me. Full mods declared to 10A rubicon, mild ones to TJ, and the 900+ HP mods to the Trackhawk. 

[Raakhee]

5 hours ago, stewart said:

Hi Caroline you are absolutely correct forum mods should really split off the topics when they become irrelevant or off topic ! It's easy to waffle of on a tangent I must admit to doing that myself! Great build post so far keep up the great work ! Haven't seen many Renegades down here as Jeep pulled them from the Aussie Market ?

No more Renegades in Australia? This is a tragedy. @Caroline12, maybe when you have completed your build, we should head to Australia to show them what they missing.

However there is an Aussie Instagram page I follow called Wild Makina that has 2 kitted out Renegades for the ultimate camping. Have a look for some inspiration @Caroline12

https://instagram.com/wildmakina?utm_medium=copy_link

[digger]

Ok, Caroline , I'm happy to respect your wishes. Sorry if you have been upset. It was not my intention. I really like your mods, plans and Renegade. 

However as you appear to be commenting about my post in particular then I must add the following  .I think it was your good self who began discussing insurance issues .

My post was entirely about some of the  aspects of insurance that affect all of us. Apologies if  I did not make this clear enough. In particular how one must be careful of the way that interpretation of words plays a big part. My use of 'regear' was purely an example of how pedantic underwriters can be. I used it because some one else had asked how it would be seen by insurers. The thing is one must make sure that comments read  regarding  insurance actually apply to your own vehicles. This is why I mentioned some of the differences with classic  cars. There are many members who use their Jeeps for work, social domestic, commuting etc etc all of which will be looked at in different ways by underwriters. My intention was purely to use one of my Jeeps as an example of this.

I'm also thumbs up for the NFU.

Good luck with the rest of your build. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Caroline12]

I forgot to mention after my 1.5” lift the wheel nuts would not come off. This was because the metal shiny caps Jeep put on them, 16mm bolts with 1mm caps = 17mm bolts. 
I had to chisel the caps off, to get to the bolts, I found 4 bolts were actually spinning in the thread as the thread was damaged in the hub.

I brought a full set of 20 x Eibach Solid wheel bolts, so this never happened again, came from Germany.

New bolts arrived, fitted. 
Ordered M12 x 1.25mm thread to re-tap the hub bolt holes, as damaged thread in at least 4 of them.

At present both front wheels have had all 5 bolt holes re tapped, lightly greased on thread, then greased alloy to hub - Tip from Jim.O to prevent seized wheels on hubs. 
Still got to do the rear wheels and hubs, to be done soon. 

 

now I have peace of mind, I can take my wheels off, easily and quickly without drama.

 

word of advice, if you don’t know, only use hex (6 sided) 17mm sockets if you have Jeep bolts with caps on.

My wheels had been on and off quite a bit from the garage, new tyres and suspension fit, the caps became misshapen, which caused the problem in the first place. I have since read on Facebook, this happened to someone else as well.

if the cap moves, while trying to remove the bolt, with no extra tools, won’t you get the bolt out. You have remove the cap first, hence my photos below. 

[digger]

Excellent post re wheel nuts. 

I am cynical about what goes on in, not all, but many 'professional 'operations.  Your article to me would appear to be a good example. I suspect that someone has used an air tool on max to remove and refit your wheels as quickly as possible,  with no proper torquing etc.

 

To clarify, I'm not keen on some modern build methods either but its not Jeeps fault they have to compete!  What some character, some where, with an airgun, who is possibly  being paid via an ill thought out bonus system, does afterwards, is irrelevant.

[Caroline12]

New bit of kit turned up today  

but where is it going ?????

[Caroline12]

Unistrut turned up today Too a rough layout of how it will go, bits are missing, fixing bits and bolts 

[Caroline12]

My design of fitting in diagram below, there is nothing I have seen between the engine chassis/frame and the location needed for the brackets for the light bar. 
- I have allowed for vertical plane adjustment by the frame.

- I have allowed for fwd/aft plane (forward and aft, ships) for correct location at the bumper area. 
- finally at the front with the light bar brackets, I have horizontal plane adjustment for correct positioning of the bar through the grill holes. 
I can’t put a unistrut bar all the way through, as the radiator is in the way.

 

anything that causes a design issue when fitting will be dealt with at the time. At present I don’t think there is an issue. 
 

I will not be putting an towing/anchor point on the unistrut support. I don’t feel unistrut has the correct strength to resist lateral/angle pull of several tonnes. It would probably bend or rip out the M8 bolts, unistrut and damage the bumper. This is not a safe option for me, the vehicle or anyone/vehicle in the way.  
I have looked at Mopar design parts for the support of the front red hooks (US version) and other red hooks design (European) attachments. I would not be mechanical happy/confident the red hook towing brackets would survive on a lateral/angle pull in deep mud. On a straight pull the red hooks are probably fine on tarmac. 
 

I will be using the specified screw in towing as supplied by the manufacturer for all renegades. I have thought about the mechanical forces involved, I feel these are the only safe towing points. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Caroline12
Spelling, predictive text

[UKTJ]

Watching with interest. Remember to take lots of pictures.

[Caroline12]

46 minutes ago, UKTJ said:

Watching with interest. Remember to take lots of pictures.

Yes i will

[Caroline12]

I was not happy with the rock rail rivnuts they supplied, so I brought larger M8 rivnuts and a proper tool to do it with. The supplied rivnuts were poor quality, very small lip and like aluminium, they were also rattling as I drove.

I have replaced them with large lipped M8 high carbon steel rivnuts and M8 x 40mm A2 Stainless steel bolts, a lot stronger, flat and spring washers.  
 

So today’s job was to remove the rock rails, remove the rivnuts, which I pulled out with my fingers, they were not even sealing at the back properly
 

Going from M6 to M8 required drilling the holes out from 9mm to 11mm in the sill to get the rivnuts in. Put rivnuts on the rivnuts tool, put into hole and squeezed the handles. Job done, super tight and solid, very happy with the results and how the tool worked.

bolted everything up again and job done.

 

I learnt a valuable lesson, just because they supplied rivnuts and bolts etc, if they are no good, replace with higher spec, I now have a rivnut tool which can go to M12, use it for work and my Jeep. I had never used rivnuts before, watched a YouTube video on how to do it, but the supplied rivnuts were cheap rubbish.

 

I sealed the gap between rock rails and Jeep body with silicone sealant before, I shall reseal tomorrow in daylight. 

 

please see photos below hopefully they won’t rattle now

[spookie the aardvark]

Nice one Caroline that should be a lot stronger

Your right sometimes you have yo look at the parts supplied and just bin them and do things right