Tyres

[V]

I don't have any experience of these particular tyres, but I have been very impressed by some of their previous models.

 

This tyre reminds me of a BFG Mud Terrain. The video commercial for the X3 says that all X3 tyres are triple ply. That puts them on my list of candidates.

[Matt]

The trail grappler are very similar to the toyos I think, heavier but strong and long wearing 

[Volant165]

I dis similar. My 10th Anniversary Rubicon is a red/black trimmed rig. Thought the Red lettering would be cool. Did the technicL comparison and although the Cooper had a slightly better soeed rating, the Toyos had better load rating, fewer revolutions per mile, and weighed slightly more. And my  daily driving experience on wet tarmac with Toyos is excellent. I found better than my Goodyear Duratracs which were AT's 
 

So, I slapped on  a fresh set of Toyos. I have bought several sets of tyres recently to beat the price increases (container shortages etc.) 

[TimC]

So here’s an update on this thread. I did not end up getting the Grabber X3s in the end even though I did like them and in an ideal world where I could have any choice of size or spec I probably would.

 

However since we aren’t in an ideal world and COVID ( and to a lesser extent Brexit ) has reduced the availability of 4x4 tyres I had to go with what was available. As previously mentioned I was all set to go with the X3 with red lettering........until I saw the lettering. Lesson 1: always try to actually see the tyres you are thinking of buying, try them next to each other an next to your vehicle to get an idea of size and how they look. 

 

Didn’t really fancy the Toyo open country and the Radar R-7 was almost ( but not quite) impossible to get hold of. In the end what decided it for me was size. I was looking at 295/70R17 or possibly 305/70R17, however you can get 285s in a 75 profile on a 17” rim although it’s much less common, in fact BFG seem to be one of the few that do it. I know this because it’s the tyre that Jeep fit as the stock tyre on the JL Rubicon. I managed to find a set of 285/75R17 KM3s that were only slightly over budget and after a bit of a delay shipping had them fitted last week. Lesson 2. Ignore lesson one and buy the tyres off the internet without seeing them first because they are the the biggest tyre you can get away with without more lift or fitting flat fenders.

 

I like the KM3. I’ve not read a bad word about them. As far as I can see there are only 3 minuses for me: No OWL....it’s a personal preference but actually I’m warming quite a lot to the way they look. They are top of the price range.......well I guess you get what you pay for. They are, in reality, actually quite a long way off what they should be going by the numbers, they should be just short of 34”:, actually they are a 33” tyre, taller than my old 285/70 Cooper STT Pros by about 1/2” but also about 10mm narrower even though they are both 285s .....see lesson 1.

 

Pluses for the KM3 , they are BFG, have a massive rep and everyone seems to think they are a top tyre. I think they look great even without OWL and actually the fact it is a bit smaller than the labelling turns out to be a good thing, a 33” tyre is exactly right for my 2.5” lift and the spare carrier, 33.8” would have been too big. A tough tyre with triple ply sidewall and all the latest “tyre technology” ...whatever that is but it’s probably good. Apparently performs really well when aired down. So far reasonably quiet on the road and handles well. Doesn’t seem too throw up as much water as my Coopers ( maybe that 10mm width makes all the difference ) Will be taking them to N.Yorks and Lakes in June and hopefully Wales in July to give them a good workout, I fully expect to be impressed , although to be fair my Coopers never let me down....except that one time at Aldermaston but that was just stupid! 

 

Here’s a pic of what they look like:

 

 

[spookie the aardvark]

Got those on my WG only pain was having to cut the front bumper and liners to make them fit. They are so good at one point they tryed to pull the bumper off in reverse Do love them, but haven't had a chance to test them off road ......................... yet - thank you covid

Look awesome on your Wrangler

[Volant165]

Good choice of tyre. Top pick purchased for sure. 
 

I have pretty much have run BFG's my whole life until my size was unavailable and made the move to Toyo Open Countries on the recommendation of some US mates.  BFG tends to be a harder and much longer lasting compound than the toyos in my experience. 
 

You won't throw much water up as the BFG' don't have sipes like the Coopers and Toyos, a feature that presents better wet and icey tarmac traction and why I went Toyo again as the majority of my driving is wet UK tarmac

 

The Toyos have a pound or two more rubber which is great for airing down but they are noisier than the BFG's and the extra rotational mass means I lost one mpg but it's a Jeep after all. 
 

Enjoy the new boots! 

 

[Matt]

I don't think you'll regret the choice Tim; I wasn't a massive fan of the way they looked either.  But I've had them on for almost 2 years now in all conditions and the performance has been fantastic.  compared the Cooper STT's they replaced its night and day.

[Black_box_jeep]

Hi Tim, mind me asking where did you order the 285/75/17 km3 from? All my enquiries led to a dead end before someone helpfully told me that the 285/75/17 wasn’t available in Europe/ UK markets. 
Cheers

[TimC]

21 hours ago, spookie the aardvark said:

Got those on my WG only pain was having to cut the front bumper and liners to make them fit. They are so good at one point they tryed to pull the bumper off in reverse Do love them, but haven't had a chance to test them off road ......................... yet - thank you covid

Look awesome on your Wrangler

 

Thank you sir!

[spookie the aardvark]

Just now, TimC said:

 

Thank you sir!

Your very welcome - go out and love your new boots

[TimC]

19 hours ago, Volant165 said:

Good choice of tyre. Top pick purchased for sure. 
 

I have pretty much have run BFG's my whole life until my size was unavailable and made the move to Toyo Open Countries on the recommendation of some US mates.  BFG tends to be a harder and much longer lasting compound than the toyos in my experience. 
 

You won't throw much water up as the BFG' don't have sipes like the Coopers and Toyos, a feature that presents better wet and icey tarmac traction and why I went Toyo again as the majority of my driving is wet UK tarmac

 

The Toyos have a pound or two more rubber which is great for airing down but they are noisier than the BFG's and the extra rotational mass means I lost one mpg but it's a Jeep after all. 
 

Enjoy the new boots! 

 

 

Funny that Jim, some kind of weird inverse symmetry going on there. I have never had BFGs before, this is, surprisingly, my first set, made the move to BFG partly because they were the only ones who did the size I wanted . Yeah, they don’t have sipings so much more of a summer tyre. They have a larger  gap in the centre tread blocks which apparently helps mould the tyre onto uneven surfaces and rocks. According to what I’ve read BFG have tried to compensate for the lack of Sipings in other ways , such as the compound used ?? They definitely don’t throw up water like the Coopers  and quieter too. As you say the lack of sipings makes them not so good in the wet and ice, much more a summer tyre, however since I switch over my tyres to my Radar AT5s  in the winter I should hopefully be OK. Boots to be enjoyed!

[TimC]

5 hours ago, Matt said:

I don't think you'll regret the choice Tim; I wasn't a massive fan of the way they looked either.  But I've had them on for almost 2 years now in all conditions and the performance has been fantastic.  compared the Cooper STT's they replaced its night and day.

 

Hi Matt, I didn’t realise you had them, you’re on 35s though aren’t you. I’m definitely starting to love the look of them too and the more I drive on them the better they get, which is pretty good going considering I really liked the STT Pros

[TimC]

2 hours ago, Black_box_jeep said:

Hi Tim, mind me asking where did you order the 285/75/17 km3 from? All my enquiries led to a dead end before someone helpfully told me that the 285/75/17 wasn’t available in Europe/ UK markets. 
Cheers

 

Ah ha, yes I got told by all the tyre dealers that you couldn’t get them or if you could they were outrageously expensive! However I got them off Ebay in the end and at what I thought was a pretty reasonable price for BFGs considering. The eBay seller is called getoffroad4X4 they mainly do Landrover stuff I think, anyway just search the tyre size and you’ll find them. 

It’s pretty daft if they aren’t available in Europe since that is what the JL Rubicon comes with. In fact I had hoped to be able to get some off somebody who had bought a JLR and wanted to go straight up to 35s and was selling them off nearly new........hence the search on eBay.

Edited May 17, 2021 by TimC

[Black_box_jeep]

13 minutes ago, TimC said:

 

Ah ha, yes I got told by all the tyre dealers that you couldn’t get them or if you could they were outrageously expensive! However I got them off Ebay in the end and at what I thought was a pretty reasonable price for BFGs considering. The eBay seller is called getoffroad4X4 they mainly do Landrover stuff I think, anyway just search the tyre size and you’ll find them. 

It’s pretty daft if they aren’t available in Europe since that is what the JL Rubicon comes with. In fact I had hoped to be able to get some off somebody who had bought a JLR and wanted to go straight up to 35s and was selling them off nearly new........hence the search on eBay.

Thanks Tim, I found them with that supplier but mixed reviews of their service and they didnt respond to a message I sent so wasnt sure if it was legit. 
 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Black_box_jeep

[TimC]

Well, yes I would agree with that take on the supplier. Delivery was a bit...er, variable, said it was 3-5 days ended up nearer 10 and their communication wasn’t great, didn’t actually sound like they had stock to be honest. But they arrived in the end and look to be kosher so all OK , a 6 out of 10 maybe on the supplier.

[TimC]

First outing on the new tyres, a family camp out. Took the Rubicon up Parkamoor, no problems with the KM3s either on the trail or on the motorway on the way up. Went up nice and easy without airing down. Parkamoor is not as technical as it used to be, has had some filling and levelling done but still challenging and the viewpoint at the top overlooking Coniston well worth the drive. My Nephew was on my old STT Pros in his D3 and managed to detach one of his rear wheel arches. Still a bit of fettling to do there, some 2” shock/ bump stop spacers are on the way. It would probably help if he didn’t always take the hardest line.

[Black_box_jeep]

Thanks @TimCfor the confidence boost for the ebay seller.

We went the same route after our chat. Was contacted by seller almost immediately telling me the tyres would be 10 days or so rather than the advertised 3 and if that was ok, they’d proceed, if not would refund. Sure enough they shipped 10 days later and arrived as expected. All fitted up to the new AEV saltas and a run up to Kidderminster as test and then the JOC/ Unity meet. Definitely seem to ride better than the 275/70/18 Toyo M/T’s on the road and performed well without airing down offroad. Measured up at 32.75” at 33psi which was maybe 1/4” more than the Toyos.

weight was around 67lbs per tyre, and with the wheel around 98lbs. The stock wheels are meant to be around 25lbs and with the toyos weighed around 94lbs so obv a heavier tyre (but behaved well on and offroad). 
Overall, very happy. Cheers

Second pic courtesy of Alex.

[TimC]

You are most welcome @Black_box_jeep glad it all went well. I think you got a bit better communication than I did but sounds fine in the end. They look the business on your Jeep on those AEV wheels too.I really like mine, so far no complaints at all, definitely quieter than the Coopers, Very satisfied, I’m sure you will be too. Cheers.

[Black_box_jeep]

3 hours ago, PDB said:

 

Wow, heavy tyres and wheels. My cooper st maxx are 55lbs @265/70/17 and perform very well all round, inc the tough test limping home off tarmac on 1.4bar after ripping off the valve stem, followed by an hours drive heating them up on tarmac. KM3 is a great tyre it seems but, why so heavy???

It’s a mud terrain with reinforced sidewalls. Also a bit bigger than what you have. For size/ MT etc the BFG is one of the lighter options. 
KO2s in same size are lighter but I would have wanted a 35 in the all terrain so only 3lbs difference. 
practicality says all terrains are a better choice for most of ours use, but I’m a sucker for the look of a MT on jeeps. Did look at the Maxx as a compromise but weren’t available in the size I wanted. 
  I did loads of research to narrow down the choices based on spec/ reviews and look/ size. This was the sweet spot of all the requirements for me.

 

[TimC]

@Black_box_jeep @PDB This conversation takes an interesting turn here because it highlights some of the huge range of things that you can consider when looking for tyres. I say CAN consider because for most of my vehicles, for most of my life and probably for most people all the time, it really doesn’t matter, you drive into quikfit when the tread depth is at minimum and ask them to put on whatever they’ve got that fits and isn’t too expensive. 
 

However with my 4x4s it is completely the opposite, hours are spent looking at size, cost, tread pattern, compound specs, sidewall design, weight, number of plies……….and availability.

 

I have to say that I am pretty much with BBJ on this one on the whole. Yes the KM3 is heavy, and that brings with it all the issues of getting that mass moving and stopping it, swapping them over and loading the spare, that however really comes with the territory, it is what it is, a big tough, triple ply 33x11.5” tyre. It’s a bit unfair to directly compare it to a smaller size hybrid tyre like the STMaxx but it’s is a valid point worth considering. It just really goes to show that there isn’t a perfect tyre. Everyone has their own priorities and makes their own compromises depending on their own situation.

 

Here’s some thoughts that influenced my decision: 

I did look at hybrid 70/30 tyres, the STMaxx, which I’ve seen in use off road and also the Radar RT+. Both are, IMO good tyres, and for a lot of scenarios perform as good or better than a pure MT. I had a conversation a while ago on this forum with a guy who ran an off road touring company, had a Jeep and swore by ATs , never ran MTs and for what he did he was probably absolutely right. ATs are lighter, quieter, hold the tarmac better and perform off road on dirt, gravel sand and rock as good or better. When you are driving down to Morocco to do the Atlas Mountains they are exactly what you need, Much like running STmaxxs in Paris Dakar. His daughter ran MTs on her Jeep………because they look cooler. ………. and she is right, they do. They are also better in mud, without a doubt, something I have seen clearly demonstrated on several occasions. If you are in deep mud, deep muddy ruts or anything muddy and slimy then you want a big MT to get you traction and pull you through.

 

The ST Maxx and the RT+ are a good all rounder, a bit more MT than AT, look the part, the RT+ even has some cool funky sidewall design options which I quite like. For me though I have a set of ATs which I run in the winter because they are better in snow ice and the wet on the road, theses days I switch to the MTs in the summer when I change the top and keep them on, I used to only fit the MTs if I was taking it off road but now it’s not my daily drive I’ve got a bit lazy. So for My off roading, which is here in the UK I want something that is going to handle the mud and the ruts and I want the biggest tyre I can fit without having to do a ton more mods than my 2.5” lift and HD tailgate hinge. 33” is as big as I can do without lifting more or changing the fenders and redoing the spare carrier. 
I also want something that is tough, particularly sidewall tough. All of the damage ( as opposed to wear) on my STT pros was sidewall damage and from two lanes in particular which I drive on a relatively regular basis, Strata Florida ( full of nasty sharp rocks lurking in the stream beds) and Breasthigh Road which is just a huge climb of boulders interspersed with concrete steps. One guy from this club ripped a hole in the sidewall of his STT pros while I was with him doing Breasthigh. So a triple sidewall is good for me. The KM3 has apparently been designed particularly to take advantage of being aired down something to do with the “ flex zone” or something, allows it to get more traction. Having a tough sidewall that doesn’t flex too much is a good thing here. I know how you like to minimise ground pressure Paolo, but the tyre is wider to start with and the majority of the extra footprint you get should be in the forward/ backward direction not the axial direction. You want the tyre to spread out along the tread, not bulge out at the sidewall if the sidewall is soft and flexi. If you get too much bulge that just gives more target for the nasty rocks to slice into.

 

And lastly MTs look cool even if you never go off road. I am the sort of sad person who drives Jeeps , not because they are the best 4x4xfar but because they are the coolest 4x4xfar and like BBJ I’m a sucker for anything that IMO makes it look cooler

 

and did I already say lastly? we’ll really lastly, Availability. If you can’t get a particular tyre in the size you want then you are stuffed. I wanted 285/75/17 because it’s really the only way to get a 33 without going to 12” or 12.5” wide. Going with 285 keeps my jeep on a narrower track for those tight lanes ( Parkamoor, Tilberthwaite) and means I don’t have to worry about backspacing/ offset and clearance on the wheel arches. An MT in 285/75/17? ………BFG KM3 really hits the sweet spot on what I have to compromise with and chooses itself on availability.

 

Everyone, however , has their own different Jeep with their own different vision and criteria, which is one of the things I love about them. As I said there really isn’t just one perfect tyre choice.

[Black_box_jeep]

I think Tim C has saved me a lot of typing!

Cooper was on the list of likely options but no stock in the size I wanted. I almost went to 315/70/17 which would have forced my hand for Regear which is on the wish list for “one day”. But then saw this post which gave the confidence to use the eBay supplier that id tried to use a few months previous (would have saved me boring mrs BBJ with tyre info and pics). 
Id say on road has improved over the toyo MTs in noise and comfort and maybe even performance but maybe that’s because the wallets a lot lighter now! 
Haven’t even had chance to air them down yet, and coped well with the few obstacles at the JOC event. The guys that run the km3 in a 35 and 37 seem to get good results airing them down so I’m sure they’ll be fine for most of what we’ll ask of it.

[Rick Kiesel]

I’m very very very picky about tires, so much so that it’s usually the first thing I think about before I even purchase a vehicle. Here in the UK we don’t need to worry about rocks too much, if you troll the US forums you will see a lot of people leaning towards rock climbing but they might be thinking of bare rocks common in the mid-west. That really does not apply over here so I’m not too worried about a pure rock tire where the KM3 may be favored.

 

IMHO the Cooper STT Pro is my favorite for UK terrain and the on road drivability is miles better then MT tires in the old days, the technology behind lug design and compounds really have improved in the last 10 years. Just make sure you get the correct load rating for your application! Also I like the sidewall lugs of the STT Pro, the biggest weak point for me is sidewall punctures. My record to blow out a sidewall was 1.5 miles on a brand new tire, but that was on a gravel rally track so not really a fair comparison, but I will say that I’m very confident about the STT Pro in this regard.

 

Anyway my 2cents is money spent on the Cooper STT PRO is a wise investment and a good selection of sizes should be fairly easy to locate in the UK.

 

BTW. I run the Cooper STT Pro 265/75/16 on an 02 TJ

[TimC]

2 hours ago, PDB said:

Thanks Rick. I thought they were KM3s on your TJ but seems they are STT pro. Pretty much the same size as mine and they looked good on your TJ. Have you weighed your spare wheel and tyre? Just curious. The main thing for me is weight as I carry the spare on the roof.

I was going to say Paolo that weight must be a key factor for you for that reason, more of a factor than perhaps for other people. Keeping the weight up on the rack to a minimum, not to mention getting it up and down from there is probably near the top of your list for things you don’t want to compromise on. Funny that the spare is often forgotten by people when going up in tyre size. And don’t get me wrong I’m not against a lighter tyre in an MT, saves your brakes and fuel economy, it’s just a question of of what manufacturers can build.

[TimC]

12 hours ago, Rick Kiesel said:

I’m very very very picky about tires, so much so that it’s usually the first thing I think about before I even purchase a vehicle. Here in the UK we don’t need to worry about rocks too much, if you troll the US forums you will see a lot of people leaning towards rock climbing but they might be thinking of bare rocks common in the mid-west. That really does not apply over here so I’m not too worried about a pure rock tire where the KM3 may be favored.

 

IMHO the Cooper STT Pro is my favorite for UK terrain and the on road drivability is miles better then MT tires in the old days, the technology behind lug design and compounds really have improved in the last 10 years. Just make sure you get the correct load rating for your application! Also I like the sidewall lugs of the STT Pro, the biggest weak point for me is sidewall punctures. My record to blow out a sidewall was 1.5 miles on a brand new tire, but that was on a gravel rally track so not really a fair comparison, but I will say that I’m very confident about the STT Pro in this regard.

 

Anyway my 2cents is money spent on the Cooper STT PRO is a wise investment and a good selection of sizes should be fairly easy to locate in the UK.

 

BTW. I run the Cooper STT Pro 265/75/16 on an 02 TJ

I pretty much agree with that sentiment Rick. As I said, I had no complaints with my STT pros, a great tyre and never let me down. Came down to availability though, just didn’t do the size I wanted. I wanted  to go up to a 33 and to do that with the STT pro would have meant 33x12.50 which I didn’t wantIf Cooper had done it in 285/75R17 I would probably have gone with them again as they are cheaper than BFG.

[Stu2985]

After 15 years green laning and off roading in the UK and trying various tyres and seeing friends running them.    These are my personal views and opinions

 

Cooper STT - Sensible priced tyre but I find their sidewall traction for example on grassy side slopes to be worse out of any tyre I have ever tried and seen

 

BFG AT - Great tyre but very expensive and can have  its limitations on wet grass and mud

 

BFG MT - As above with less limitiations

 

Maxxis Trepador -  Great traction but why do my 31" tyres actuallymeasure only 29" ? and boy where did that tread disapear to.  Not a long life tyre and I am very wary of their actual sizes now. Not a bad price though.

 

Toyo Mt's  - Very pleased so far (2 years) plenty of tread great traction but boy do they weigh a ton compared to the other brands. Sensible money.

 

Insa turbo special tracks - Superhuman traction but play day only really.  Over 70 mph on a hot day the lugs fall off, they are shaped like a 50p piece and sound like a star wars tie fighter on the road. Cheap sa chips though.

 

For UK green laning and lets be honest most people here wont take a JK or JL  on some of the smaller tighter lanes an AT tyre is fine.  Of course if you want "the look" then its bfg mt's .  The odd play day well its up to you. Latest Jeeps have plenty traction aids to overcome an AT tyre limitations.   One thing to check is you can actually get your chosen size in chosen brand currently as tyre stock is a bit hit and miss at the minute.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Stu2985