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Suzuki continues in a market that Jeep have already left!


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...Reasonably priced capable off-road vehicles.

 

There was a time, not long ago when the 'Jeep Wrangler Sport' was the cheapest model in the Jeep range. The off road utility of a Jeep was in the base model and it continued through all of the other more expensive SUV models. If you wanted comfort and luxury you bought a Cherokee or a Grand Cherokee. How did this get flipped on it's head in the 21st century?

 

Today I found this info about The new Suzuki Jimny very interesting.

 

  • Four wheel drive with 2 speed transfer case, high and low range
  • Small petrol engine with 5 speed manual or 4 speed auto transmission
  • 88" wheelbase
  • Ladder chassis
  • Solid axles
  • Coil sprung 3-link suspension (looks like radius arm with panhard rod)

 

My Dad learned to drive at an early age on a farm that was using surplus Willys MB's as tractors. Jeep has always been in my family. It makes me feel a little uneasy that this new Suzuki Jimny is a closer fit to my perception of what the Jeep brand image was up to 2001. I am really pleased that Suzuki have the courage to produce a vehicle in the 21st century that will keep all four wheels on the ground on and off road. Pricing hasn't been announced yet for the Jan 2019 launch but I reckon Suzuki are going to be more smart than greedy. I am definitely going to test drive one.

 

So on a technical basis, why haven't Suzuki built the Jimny as a unibody with all round independent suspension, diesel engine and offer 4wd only in the high end model?

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3 hours ago, V said:

...Reasonably priced capable off-road vehicles.

 

There was a time, not long ago when the 'Jeep Wrangler Sport' was the cheapest model in the Jeep range. The off road utility of a Jeep was in the base model and it continued through all of the other more expensive SUV models. If you wanted comfort and luxury you bought a Cherokee or a Grand Cherokee. How did this get flipped on it's head in the 21st century?

 

Today I found this info about The new Suzuki Jimny very interesting.

 

  • Four wheel drive with 2 speed transfer case, high and low range
  • Small petrol engine with 5 speed manual or 4 speed auto transmission
  • 88" wheelbase
  • Ladder chassis
  • Solid axles
  • Coil sprung 3-link suspension (looks like radius arm with panhard rod)

 

My Dad learned to drive at an early age on a farm that was using surplus Willys MB's as tractors. Jeep has always been in my family. It makes me feel a little uneasy that this new Suzuki Jimny is a closer fit to my perception of what the Jeep brand image was up to 2001. I am really pleased that Suzuki have the courage to produce a vehicle in the 21st century that will keep all four wheels on the ground on and off road. Pricing hasn't been announced yet for the Jan 2019 launch but I reckon Suzuki are going to be more smart than greedy. I am definitely going to test drive one.

 

So on a technical basis, why haven't Suzuki built the Jimny as a unibody with all round independent suspension, diesel engine and offer 4wd only in the high end model?

 

Good points Vince! I think Jeep in Europe have become so focused on "Premium" and forgotten it's core market ! 

 

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List base price for a UK Sahara JK two door is now £38K...…..Thirty eight thousand pounds! that is a lot of money for a utility 4x4. However (some/most) people (nowadays) WANT their leather seats, their heated seats , their big display, integrated nav connect to everything tech, so I guess that to continue to sell in reasonable numbers Jeep have to offer these otherwise the Wrangler will go the way of the Defender. I was talking to a landscape gardener a while back and got this view: he used to have a 110 defender as his work truck but he ditched it for a Japanese pickup because the Landrover was a utility vehicle, a tractor...and it feels like one to be in one. His new pickup carried all the kit his defender did but now he has all the comforts of a nice car, quieter more civilised and probably cheaper ( although it may not last as long ). I have to admit I was not a fan of the JK Wrangler to start with, for me it was too far removed from the CJ/YJ and I couldn't get my head round it being four doors. However I am now a complete convert, if the Wrangler was still a YJ or even a TJ I could not have the pleasure of using it every day as my daily drive and putting the miles on it I do. I think the 4 door JK, even with it's leather seats, has probably saved the Wrangler...…..and that is important. Jeeps, in particular the Wrangler, for me do transcend the "is it a good, capable 4x4" question ( I know this is not something you necessarily agree with Vince ?  ) If I had the choice between my Wrangler and a new Suzuki Jimny I would still choose my Wrangler even if the Jimny was a "better" 4x4    

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I don't think this is an issue of comparison between a Wrangler and a Jimny. They are different vehicles that use the same technology. A bit like comparing a Vauxhall Corsa with a Mercedes E-Class. They are both German built cars with petrol engines and independent front suspension.

 

A 4-door JK was the last brand new Jeep that I bought and that was in 2007. It was my daily drive and I clocked up 85,000Km in it. I loved it and if I had the choice I would never had sold it. There is a market for real 4x4 vehicles but Jeep and Land Rover have got greedy and priced themselves out of it. Suzuki are going to prove them wrong. The last Jimny model had a twenty year production run and I don't see that this Jimny will be any different. It may have switched to an all electric powertrain during the production run but I think it will be around after the JL has ceased production.

 

AMC and Jeep together produced 2.7 Million Jeep Cherokee XJ between 1984 and 2001.

Suzuki built 2.85 Million Jimny between 1998 and 2018.

 

The real question is how can the new 2019 model Suzuki Jimny exist? For the last twenty years Jeep have been saying that there is no market for a 4x4 like the Jimny but here it is. Suzuki is the 8th largest automaker and look what they have done. From what I have read today a base model Jimny is going to be a third of the cost of a high spec JL.

 

I am sure this Jimny is going to be a success globally. I have read recently that Mazda, Chevrolet, Holden, Maruti and Santana have rebadged the last model, maybe Jeep could rebadge the Jimny and call it a 'Willys3' or a 'JS'.

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sabconsulting

I do like the sound of that new Jimny, especially its proper ladder chassis, solid axles and transfer box. We had an SJ for several years (it was fairly modified and pretty beaten up). But it was a great size for tight offroading - basically the same combat-proven dimensions as the Willys MB. I got one because I remember being annoyed by people in them beating my Land Rover Lightweight in RTV trials. However, every time we drive any distance in the TJ I do point out how comfortable and reliable it is in comparison. Plus the 4.0 does sound a bit better :-).

 

I hope this Jimny is a success - as a 4x4 enthusiast we want a good selection of vehicles to choose from, and even if we don't buy one ourselves the competition is good and pushes Jeep and others to compete.

 

Steve.

 

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17 minutes ago, sabconsulting said:

I hope this Jimny is a success - as a 4x4 enthusiast we want a good selection of vehicles to choose from, and even if we don't buy one ourselves the competition is good and pushes Jeep and others to compete.

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

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Jeep is now the reverse of what it used to be, Vince.  Wrangler was always the entry model, and Grand Cherokee the flagship.  We used to encourage dealers to run Wranglers as courtesy cars because Grand Cherokee customers would often fall in love on a service and buy one as a fun run-about.

 

When the Special Order programme started in 2010, a 4dr JK Rubicon was £24,750.  This year, that was £39,945.  For largely the same vehicle, complete with the same leaks.  JL pricing hasn't been announced, but given the run-out JK Edition is, what, £42k, I think we should be expecting a starting price of £50k.

 

That means Jeep's entry model is now more expensive than its flagship.

 

The previous Jimny started at just £12,999.  Allowing for a touch of inflation and spec creep, it seems reasonable to hope the new one might start at around £15,000.

 

So, potentially yes, you could buy three Jimnys for the price of a JL and still have enough money left over to put a lift and Mud Terrains on each of them.

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And, I discovered recently, so did Mazda.

 

The trouble with some of those 'badge-engineered' models is that they're actually a more complex arrangement than you might think.  For example, the Toybaru GT86/BRZ was billed as a joint development, but actually much of it was engineered by Toyota around a Subaru engine, but they didn't have spare production capacity so all of them, even the Toyotas, are built by Subaru.

 

The Fiat 124 and Mazda MX-5 is perhaps most relevant, since it's a modern day FCA arrangement.  The 124 is entirely engineered by Mazda and built alongside the MX-5 in their Hiroshima plant.  It uses Fiat-designed sheet metal and an FCA engine, but everything else is MX-5.  There's a complex contract in place that's supposed to stop the two competing too closely.  For instance, the Abarth 124 version is not allowed to have more than 170ps to avoid outshining Mazda's 2.0-litre.  From memory, the Fiat wasn't allowed a hard-top until the MX-5 RF came out.

 

It also leads to a monumentally stupid arrangement only FCA could come up with - the Abarth version is built by Mazda, but because FCA appears to insist on applying the finishing touches, it is then shipped from Japan to Turin, where some vinyl decals and a strip of Alcantara are added.  From there it ships to its destination, but is now £8,000 more expensive than the equivalent MX-5.

 

So, a Jeep-badged Jimny?  Sure.  Yours for £25,000.

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On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 08:24, AlexK said:

 

 

So, a Jeep-badged Jimny?  Sure.  Yours for £25,000.

 

Funnily enough £25K (actually £25,250) is the current list price of the CHEAPEST Jeep 4x4 you can buy new in the UK: The Renegade Longitude 2.0 diesel 4x4

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There were two Jimny models launched in Japan this week (JC and JL), both available with 5-speed manual and 4-speed automatic transmissions, prices as follows:

 

JC 4AT 2,019,600 JPY = £13,781
JC 5MT 1,922,400 JPY = £13,118
JL 4AT 1,857,600 JPY = £12,677
JL 5MT 1,760,400 JPY = £12,014

 

Jeep's closest competition as you said is a £25K car based on a Fiat 500X without solid axles and without low range 4x4. Hardly a fair comparison with the new Jimny, they are just not in the same league. Renegades undoubtedly have been enormously successfulfor FCA but they don't have any appeal at all for me. I am not going to buy a 4x4 just because it has a 'Jeep' badge on it. It has to perform how I expect a Jeep to perform. This Jimny performs like all Jeeps should. 

 

With the average price of a 10-year old JK costing more than a brand new Jimny, It saddens me that there is no longer an affordable entry level into off road Jeeping using a new or nearly new Jeep. Even TJ prices have increased to the point that some are selling at more than 2/3rds of their original purchase price. A 14 year old WG is affordable at under £3.5K and it has real 4x4 and axles but we are talking about a vehicle with high replacement parts prices and vulnerable electronics at 14 years or older. Within a few years, an off road Jeeper will be very rare in the UK. The only vehicle left in the Jeep range that truly is an off roader will be too expensive for all but the richest to be used offroad to do what it was designed for.

 

I was looking in the new Jimny's accessory brochure and they have a vehicle graphics package that caught my eye. It was not because I like stickers all over my vehicle but because of the message on them. The text on the full length body side graphic was 'REAL OFFROADER'. It struck home that Suzuki is a manufacturer that recognises what I want in a new 4x4, I feel alienated by Jeep because they have pushed the mechanical basis of the brand into the exclusivity of the high end and now I feel excluded. I hope FCA are watching Suzuki mop up their abandonded customers and do something about it by making an affordable Jeep that competes head to head with the Jimny on every level.

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7 hours ago, V said:

 

With the average price of a 10-year old JK costing more than a brand new Jimny, It saddens me that there is no longer an affordable entry level into off road Jeeping using a new or nearly new Jeep. Even TJ prices have increased to the point that some are selling at more than 2/3rds of their original purchase price. A 14 year old WG is affordable at under £3.5K and it has real 4x4 and axles but we are talking about a vehicle with high replacement parts prices and vulnerable electronics at 14 years or older. Within a few years, an off road Jeeper will be very rare in the UK. The only vehicle left in the Jeep range that truly is an off roader will be too expensive for all but the richest to be used offroad to do what it was designed for.

 

 

Which makes the most affordable entry level into off road Jeeping ........drum roll please.........The Jeep Wrangler YJ ! ?

Ok so it’s not nearly new, it’s 20+ years old but is affordable, mostly ( I paid £1700 for mine) doesn’t have vulnerable electronics (too much ) is a GREAT FUN proper Jeep and capable off road with lots of mods available. My YJ is still reliable and great as an off roader even if I wouldn’t want to drive it every day to work.

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my wife is on her 3rd Jimny now, it is a 66 plate, I bought it as a pre-reg with 30 miles on the clock 2 years ago for 11,000 pounds, top spec with leather and air-con, last year when we were going to a jeep off road event, we loaded up my wrangler, turned the key, and the starter failed, as it is an automatic, there was nothing we could do, so we put all the gear in the Jimny and took that instead, all the other club members were amazed where the little Suzuki would go, the only thing restricting its ability, was my wife threatening me with a long slow death if I got any scratches on it, also it is unbelievably good in the snow, better than a lot of other heavier 4x4's.

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I was on my way back from some off roading in Sardinia last week and passed a Suzuki dealership in Albenga. It looks just as good in the flesh as it does in the pics. My wife was relieved that the place was shut otherwise there could have been an addition to the ‘fleet’!

 

07887EFA-6851-4440-9952-67474D44D9B0.jpeg

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No - it’s a similar size, although obviously a completely diffferent shape. It does remind me of the Samurai - used to have one of those and it was a great little car. Here’s a couple more pics. 

32F152C6-0C00-48E4-A571-4F40C1066364.jpeg

BE0EBD58-8E1D-4318-8AE3-4DD253C96D68.jpeg

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I must say that it is growing on me, I will have to see if my wife likes it, if so I will wait another 12 months, then look at getting her one. I was thinking of getting her a JL, but as said, Jeep are over pricing them now, which is a great shame.

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5 hours ago, frosty said:

I will wait another 12 months

 

You might have to - Suzuki have taken well over 3,000 expressions of interest, three times the annual sales of the old model.  In Japan, there's a 12-month waiting list.

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Vince and I are at the press launch later this month, so we’ll know then if it’s as good as we’re hoping.

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I had my offroad day in a new Jimny today. Strangely, It made me remember a day from my childhood when I had my first ever experience of a pedal car. It was in a toy shop in Amersham during the late 1960's. The pedal cars were all steel back then and they had that feel of being a solid, well built and long lasting toy. The shop keeper was happy for me to pedal the Triang racing car up and down the length of the store more than once but then it came to the time when my mum had to drag me out of the shop to do the rest of the shopping. I felt a bit like that today when I had to give the Jimny back. Funny how a test drive can bring back a memory from fifty years ago. I did eventually get my own steel pedal car to whiz around at home. Mum said "Good things come to those that can wait".

 

1c7be22c6ea4cf46db420e552443ff2e.jpg

Not mine, but one just like it.

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