Winch Recovery

[V]

Go Synthetic Safer and much Lighter !

Lighter certainly and generally safer than wire rope and much easier to splice.

 

However, synthetic winch rope can be damaged by heat. Heavy or sustained use with an electric winch that has a drum mounted brake can generate enough heat to melt the first and sometimes the second layer wraps on the drum. End mounted or cone braked winches don't have this problem, neither do hydraulic winches with worm drives. Heat damaged winch rope loses its strength and should be considered as dangerous as running a frayed wire rope.

 

A heat resistant sleeving long enough to cover the entire first wrap of synthetic rope is a good idea if you have a drum brake winch.

[stewart]

Lighter certainly and generally safer than wire rope and much easier to splice.

 

However, synthetic winch rope can be damaged by heat. Heavy or sustained use with an electric winch that has a drum mounted brake can generate enough heat to melt the first and sometimes the second layer wraps on the drum. End mounted or cone braked winches don't have this problem, neither do hydraulic winches with worm drives. Heat damaged winch rope loses its strength and should be considered as dangerous as running a frayed wire rope.

 

A heat resistant sleeving long enough to cover the entire first wrap of synthetic rope is a good idea if you have a drum brake winch.

 

Just following up on your very valid points ! The attached PDF might be useful for some members illustrating the make up of a some typical synthetic ropes for which there are many brands. The illustrated rope has a red heat resistant sleeve  (not always Red though depending on manufacturer!) And an Abrasion Sleeve this can get damaged over time also ! You can buy also abrasion sleeves that you can Velcro in as in the photo attachment.

 

Steel has a lot of advantages also and will outlast synthetic ropes if treated with care!

 

One other thing to mention is to keep your rope clean (and recovery gear) The mud and dirt is like having sand paper between the fibres!

GettoKnowYourRope.pdf

[V]

That's a nice rope. I could do with one of those. I still have an unused cheap winch with a drum brake and steel rope in the garage. I don't like steel rope anymore. I always seem to get hand injuries now matter how careful I am even wearing strong leather gloves.

 

If you are unlucky enough to suffer a heat damaged synthetic rope, don't throw it away. Cut off the damaged section with a few metres extra for clear margin and make the good bit into a winch extension cable. Shove the extension under your seat or any other convenient storage location, you will be glad you have it when your main winch rope is a little too short for a recovery.

 

Now I know the last photo is a typical marketing shot and it doesn't show the full picture of the recovery area which makes criticism of the image unfair. But it is a useful image to get some of you winch newbies to spot how this recovery technique could be improved if the conditions allowed improvement? What extra kit would you use to recover this Jeep and why?

[TimC]

 

Now I know the last photo is a typical marketing shot and it doesn't show the full picture of the recovery area which makes criticism of the image unfair. But it is a useful image to get some of you winch newbies to spot how this recovery technique could be improved if the conditions allowed improvement? What extra kit would you use to recover this Jeep and why?

 

When I was last bogged down and in need of winching out I was informed that what I was missing was a someone to "point and laugh", a service Chris and Neal then proceeded to selflessly supply  :icon_e_biggrin: Gentlemen both. I found this helped immensely although in the end Stewarts winch got the job done. I have noticed that any winch recovery usually attracts a lot of interest so is the answer " a crowd of onlookers"

 

I claim my prize!!  :icon_mrgreen:  :fresse:

[neal]

a service Chris and Neal then proceeded to selflessly supply  :icon_e_biggrin: Gentlemen both.

 

Glad we could help, a service provided completely free of charge and I might add at a safe spectator distance to the final recovery

 

:glasses:

[V]

I have noticed that any winch recovery usually attracts a lot of interest so is the answer " a crowd of onlookers"

A good try and an amusing answer, but not quite what I was thinking of. Willing helpers can come in handy with a recovery but usually it's safer for them to keep well back out of the way particularly if steel rope is being used.

 

The Jeep in the last photo is winching with the rope entering the drum at an extreme angle. The Jeep will only move a few feet before the winch rope bunches up at one end of the drum. This isn't a good thing to happen with either steel or synthetic rope as it could damage the rope. It is always best to aim for a straight line pull into the winch. A snatch block (pulley block) should be used on the winch line to do this but it will need a secondary anchorage to do so. A recovery chain can be used to precisely position the snatch block to enable the winch rope to spool properly without binding.

 

If a primary anchorage was not available in the right location to provide a straight line pull, repositioning the Jeep before winching to get the winch drum 90 degrees to the line would be the first thing to try. If that's not possible, a snatch block should be used.

 

Sometimes an angled pull is unavoidable but winch operators should know why they should avoid doing it. It is worth taking the time and care to do the recovery properly even if it does mean carrying the extra weight of a recovery chain and a snatch block in your Jeep.

 

[stewart]

A good try and an amusing answer, but not quite what I was thinking of. Willing helpers can come in handy with a recovery but usually it's safer for them to keep well back out of the way particularly if steel rope is being used.

 

Rest Assured all Spectators were out side the swept area! To many times you get to see people jumping right in there wanting to get the best shot with the camera an many youtube Video's !

 

I think we need to start a new topic on this subject as it's a great discussion !

[TimC]

Yeah, that recovery did have a small audience but all safely out of harms way and it was a nice straight pull out backwards. All too often you see, as soon as someone gets themselves stuck and there’s a chance to “try out the winch” a crowd all gather in all with different suggestions as to what to be done, chaos ensues, safety goes out the window and something often ends up getting broken. Fortunately I have never had to witness anyone getting themselves injured.

 

On the other points, yes it was a bit of humour but without wanting to sound “wise after the event” the angle of the pull would have been something I’d have pointed as a potential problem and the use of a snatch block to improve the angle seems a good idea. However one thing that I have never understood about that is that if you have a good enough anchor point dead ahead for the snatch block then you have a good enough anchor point for the winch itself, so why use a snatch block? It’s not like you can winch past the snatch block. As far as using a snatch block for changing the pull angle goes it would seem to be best use for pulling from a vehicle behind to pull a stuck vehicle forwards or to right a vehicle that has gone over on its side.

 

Second question on drum brakes on winches getting too hot for synthetic rope. This would be when using the winch for a controlled descent right ie paying out, not for pulling in ...or have I got that wrong?

 

Yes seem to have  :hijacked: the thread ........ interesting stuff though. 

[TimC]

......by the way I also think a recovery hook should, wherever possible, also incorporate a bottle opener....great idea !  :icon_bounce: :icon_bounce:  :icon_lol:

[jocadmin]

We have Split the topic into a new post !

[stewart]

However one thing that I have never understood about that is that if you have a good enough anchor point dead ahead for the snatch block then you have a good enough anchor point for the winch itself, so why use a snatch block?

Yes seem to have  :hijacked: the thread ........ interesting stuff though.

 

Hi Tim the Snatch Block is very useful on a even a straight Line recovery as only the first layer of cable on the drum gives you maximum pulling power! As each spool goes down then you gradually get less and less capacity on the winch. By adding in one or even 2 snatch blocks you can double or treble the effective line pull of you winch.

 

 

[TimC]

Yes, using the snatch block/pulley block as a multiplier understood, it was more the use for changing the angle of the pull I was thinking of. I’ve seen video of it put to good use to get a side angle pull from a vehicle behind a vehicle on it’s side to right it and you could usefully use it to pull a vehicle forwards from a vehicle that is behind by putting the snatch block up ahead of the front vehicle ( if you can visualise this) it was more the use to change the pull angle on a self recovery as in the aforementioned pic that I wasn’t sure about.

[V]

It's true, the secondary anchorage for the snatch block has to be as secure as the primary anchorage for the winch rope. If the recovery can be a straight pull off the 'secondary' anchorage then it really should be your first choice for a winch rope anchorage. Some recoveries may need to change direction during the length of the pull. Having a primary attachment that is best for all of the directions the winch is pointing in during the recovery may not be possible. This is where a snatch block (or two) really comes into play as it can be repositioned as needed to cater for the direction change. Winching in forests is probably the most likely scenario in the UK.