1998 Cherokee 4.0 Ltd - Project

[V]

3 hours ago, UKTJ said:

What size tyre are you running on them?

I zoomed in on the pic too look at the sidewall and found 265/70R16.

[UKTJ]

56 minutes ago, V said:

I zoomed in on the pic too look at the sidewall and found 265/70R16.

OK, thanks.  I did try that, but couldn't make out the middle digit.

[Fourpot]

On 24/03/2022 at 11:01, UKTJ said:

Look good.  Where did you get the wheels from?  What size tyre are you running on them?

Got them from Northern Ireland ( can’t remember the company, they’ve been sitting in the garage for ages). There are quite a few suppliers in the UK. I’m running 265/70 r16 tyres.

[Fourpot]

Having done all the interesting big work, like the engine build and the brake upgrades, it's now down to the little jobs again.

Changed leaking front pinion seal and then found myself looking at a few Jeep XJ videos on you tube. I saw Mike's (MCQ Bushcraft) video about the major work he had to do to solve corrosion on his drip rails. Wow! That was heavy! Anyway, I though I'd better check mine out. I knew I was going to have to take the trims off at some point as there was some surface rust appearing on the front right corner of the roof.

Getting the trims off was a nightmare and they ended up bent and thus useless. Hey ho.

Anyway, set about scraping and wire-brushing and rust off, and there was quite a bit under the trims (which were themselves quite rusty inside).

Once I'd cleaned up the areas, they were rust treated and then painted over in satin black. 

When I paint the Jeep its new lilac colour, then I'll put some trim on after, probaby plastic edge trim glued on with Sikaflex. In the meantime, they look good enough for now and they're no longer rusty. You can see how the paintwork generally is getting tired - lots of micro-scratches and the lacquer disappearing on the roof.

[Fourpot]

It never rains....

Went to Aston University last week for an event. It was a Saturday and I left at 5pm and Villa were playing at home i.e. it was very busy. Got two car lengths from the junction onto the roundabout to the Aston Expressway, I'm in lane 2 as I'm going to turn right. the lights go green and she stopped dead and would not start again. 

RAC turned up and, lo and behold, she now decides to start (*&**!). The nice RAC chaps found that the temp sensor was not working so the engine over-fuelled and died. Now that it had cooled down it was OK. Anyway, it seemed to adjust itself somehow and after running until it was hot, switched off and it started again OK, so moved off the junction and they had a better look at it. The temp sensor was clearly broken as the plastic bit was rotating in the brass bit, also the plug was a bit worn so wasn't firmly pluggin in. 

Drove home, all good except the 'check engine' light is on all the time. Ordered a new sensor and plug, fitted and started it up, cleared the code and now she's fine.

Monday, I did some work in Liverpool and the 'check engine' light comes on again on the way home. I got home though. 

So what's wrong now? plug in my OBD2 gadget which says what the RAC's was saying in Birmingham - coolant temperature sensor high.

Out with the mulitmeter, and the earth wire from the sensor is not grounded, but there is the required 5v at the positive wire. So I tear open the ducting and conduit. Can't really find anything obvious so go all the way to the next connection and find there is a good earth and 5v where they should be. Check the continuity of the wires and they're OK. Re-connect and put everything back together and nothing again, no earth and no 5v.

The fault I found was that my bluddy multimeter had given up. Went and got a new battery for it and then I could find all the earths and 5v I could ever want. Now it's all good. Start up, 'check engine' light goes out, temp gauge works, happy, one of those 'just take it apart and put it back together' cures.

Except..... now the volt-meter on the dash is reading low to nothing and the 'check gauges' light has come on. Much fiddling and testing (with my fully functioning mulitmeter) and I diagnose a duff alternator. Order a new one. Then try and get the old one off. Should be quite easy as mine is on the top of the engine on the ignition side. Damn, when putting the 4.6 together and back in the car (with the entire front off, including radiators etc. I had put the alternator pivot bolt in from the front. Now there isn't room to get it back out. Hacksaw and new bolt.

Awaiting new alternator to arrive...

Hopefully I'll get a couple of journeys out of it before the next thing breaks!

 

[V]

I don't know what you found wrong with your alternator, but if you still have a conventional plastic case battery like the OEM one, it's worth trying that to see if your alternator has the same fault.

 

I had mysterious charging faults on Jeeps that I had installed Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) and again later with dry cell steel cased batteries. I tracked it down to the crude battery temperature sensor in the base of the battery tray. There was nothing wrong with the sensor, it just couldn't get the thermal reading the computer was expecting so the charge rate was wrong. It worked fine with a regular plastic case battery installed.

[Fourpot]

On 19/04/2022 at 14:54, V said:

I don't know what you found wrong with your alternator, but if you still have a conventional plastic case battery like the OEM one, it's worth trying that to see if your alternator has the same fault.

 

I had mysterious charging faults on Jeeps that I had installed Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) and again later with dry cell steel cased batteries. I tracked it down to the crude battery temperature sensor in the base of the battery tray. There was nothing wrong with the sensor, it just couldn't get the thermal reading the computer was expecting so the charge rate was wrong. It worked fine with a regular plastic case battery installed.

Interesting. I have an Optima yellow top. I've replaced the alternator now and all is well.

[Fourpot]

Fixed!  

[spookie the aardvark]

Glad you got sorted after all your hard work so far

[V]

I can't remember the name of the brand of AGM batteries I used, something 'De...' . It was a brand owned by Exide as all the labelling on it said 'manufactured by Exide' in large letters. The battery had a black plastic casing and a blue top. I couldn't get the temperature sensor to contact a large enough flat spot on the casing. I cut the lip off one side of the battery tray to wiggle the battery over a bit more. They charged up fully from an AGM mains charger but never seemed to fully charge on my TJ or my '93 XJ. They both eventually went into the TJ where they were ultimately killed by winching. I did manage to resurrect them a few times.

 

I bought metal cased Odysseys thinking that they would be better in the extreme temperature variation between summer and winter in Utah. They were excellent in winter and started the Jeeps first time after three months garaged and below freezing temperatures. I think the metal case on my XJ's Odyssey prevented the sensor getting the correct temperature reading. The alternator was fine, and still is. The first died being deep discharged in -20DegC, it would only hold a charge for 3 days after that mishap. It wasn't until the second one started failing that I considered the metal casing could be a problem. I reckon I would have been OK if I hadn't bought the metal cased version for the XJ. The TJ had the plastic case Odyssey and was fine. The same alternator and battery tray sensor have been charging regular batteries normally* since I replaced my last Odyssey in 2012.

 

*With calcium batteries I give them a top-up charge once a month using a charger that has a calcium battery desulfation mode.

 

[Fourpot]

No dramas or work done for a while. The old Jeep has taken me as far as Southampton, Brixham and Grimsby and running well.

I'd bought some Rustoleum Combicolcor and having used a green to good effect on my bike and being pleased with the finish, I set about the roof and bonnet.

The nearest in the range to purple is 'red lilac', quite bright and a bit pink, but I thought I'd give it a go to save mixing colours.

Hmmm, too pink, even after a week or so, it darkened slightly but no, toooo pink.

Sanded down (in the pic) and now I'm mixing a 2/3rds red lilac, 1/3rd blue....  hopefully better and purple.

[UKTJ]

Yup, that's pink alright.

[Fourpot]

That's better.  The rest of the car will be painted bit by bit. Front grill etc next and then front wings. Doors and body will be harder to do. Maybe by Christmas.

By the way, I used a roller...

Edited August 21, 2022 by Fourpot

[Fourpot]

Getting there.

I'm having some difficulty getting the paint to level out. Using a roller on the bike I got a great finish, but the same paint (different colour of course) is not smoothing out as much at all. Drying out leaves roller marks. Whilst it's a bit like that bed liner stuff, it's a bit too rough and ready looking. Maybe I'll just warm to it.

[Fourpot]

Each panel has got better than the last. The difference between bike finish and Jeep finish turned out to be roller density. Now using same as on bike, I'm getting the finish I want. 

Doors took a while, just to take apart the handles, locks, window trim etc. 

Now to the rear quarters. I'd have liked to have just masked off the windows but there has been a bit of rust sneaking out from under the seal on one side. Fearing hidden rust all around the seal, I had to get the windows out. This involved getting most of the boot area trim off, to get a clean access to the seal from inside. A good video from Bleepin' Jeep helped and they came out easily and unbroken. The rust was happily just in that one spot and seems to have started on the outside not from inside the seal, although it's close to perforating the steel. After some robust wire brushing, scraping, some rust-killer stuff and a smear of filler, it's ready to paint. I'll shove some Waxoyl up inside the seam there too.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Fourpot

[Fourpot]

Purple done. Bottom parts done in black but too shiny I think (ordered some matt). I think the tinted windows and all the black bits now look really cool with the brighter, lighter colour.

I have now to think about the inside edges of the doors and door openings. Probably just black but maybe the purple, although possibly that may need the doors off (I'll contact the bloke who did the explo work for Charlie Croker....)

I got the Jeep badge from ebay - not a MOPAR part. The back one went on OK, but they're just too rigid to comply with the curve of the front, so there isn't one on the front. Lots of money for an OEM one, so won't bother.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Fourpot

[spookie the aardvark]

Well worth the effort mate, she's looking fantastic

[Fourpot]

I bought some toys a while ago to fix a few little creaks and grumbles. The steering would creak when at low speed (greater load?) and so I got the Missus to turn the wheel while I was under the car. I couldn't find anything that was making any noise specifically, but I could see a very slight movement of the whole steering box as the frame flexed. I have an Ironman 4x4 mounting plate and the plate for the front bumper is on the other side of the frame too, yet there is still that tiny bit of give. All the bolts and threads are good. I found a top bit of kit on Ironman 4x4's website and bought it via ebay (so avoiding the colossal cost of buying it from the website, as ebay use the Global Shipping Programme). It's a big brace that holds the steering box above and below the pitman arm.

Quite easy to fit and seems to have got rid of all creaks and play. The downside was that after having used Ford F350 drop-links to put the anti-roll bar back to where it started life, I've had to put stock ones back as the bar has had to be lowered again to clear the steering box brace.

 

The other emerging issue is a little grumble from the rear drive train. Haven't been able to nail it down yet as it's only noticeable when moving - nothing seems to have any excess play, but as the pinion seal is leaking, I'll take the whole diff apart and have a look. I'll be able to check the axle bearing at the same time.

Anyway, to lengthen the life expectancy of drive train parts, which can be reduced when a Jeep is lifted, I have dropped it back down an inch, 2" (medium strength) rear springs from OME and I've taken out the pucks that had added an inch and a quarter at the front. 

When doing the disc-brake conversion I had routed the brake pipes and ABS leads above the springs (normally they go under). Luckily I was able to wiggle the springs in and out with undoing them. New Trailmaster bushes added too. Stock shackles still, with Trailmaster bushes aswell.

 

Doesn't look much different, but better pinion angles and steering arm/trackbar angles. But it's a bit like me.... settling with age.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Fourpot

[doodle]

awesome colour

[V]

30 minutes ago, doodle said:

awesome colour

Awesome garage!

[digger]

Really impressed, excellent job and Jeep. Wish my workshop was as clean and tidy as yours!  

 

I've had 'creakings , on and off with the YJ which I have tried to solve.

Its noticeable turning steering wheel at standstill or very slow speed.  I've tried all kinds of ideas from the net and plenty of my own. I have a steering box brace. I removed all the bolts ,threadlocked  them and retorqued. No effect! I've noticed that it seems less, even zero, after thorough pressure washing.  So ,I spray lubed everything when the creaks were starting to return , one  part by one, from body mounts to bushes to joints etc. No result. The daft thing is that with a stethoscope, I am unable to isolate exactly, even roughly , where the sound comes from!  Its as if the chassis is working like a sound box on a musical instrument!  No conclusions!

So, I'm with the folk on the USA forums!  Its a Jeep and its part of the character I love!!

 

Just think, if I had a 'Landy' it might not creak, parts would just fall off or fail all the time!  LOl.  

[V]

I am interested how that Ironman pillow block support works out, it looks very sturdy. I have had that steering creak before many years ago but I resolved it by installing a smaller drop pitman arm as a workaround. The trackbar was setup for the deeper pitman arm so the swap induced a bit of bump steer but I don't notice it now. Traditionally, a transverse bar running from the neck of the steering box to the otherside frame rail has been a good solution for many. I guess I have been lucky with my workaround as I don't have a steering box brace on either XJ only the frame stiffening from the long winch bumper mounts.

 

I am going a different route on my next front axle. I will be transferring a lot of the steering forces to the axle housing/truss using a hydro-assist cylinder powered and controlled by the steering box hydraulics. When my Jeep is nose down in a ditch at 45 degrees or so it is impossible to steer even just a tiny amount with bigger tyres. I am hoping hydro-assist will help alleviate this problem and as a bonus reduce the stress on the steering box at the frame rail. Perhaps enough to put the deeper pitman arm back on.

[Fourpot]

On 05/10/2022 at 13:16, V said:

I am interested how that Ironman pillow block support works out, it looks very sturdy. I have had that steering creak before many years ago but I resolved it by installing a smaller drop pitman arm as a workaround. The trackbar was setup for the deeper pitman arm so the swap induced a bit of bump steer but I don't notice it now. Traditionally, a transverse bar running from the neck of the steering box to the otherside frame rail has been a good solution for many. I guess I have been lucky with my workaround as I don't have a steering box brace on either XJ only the frame stiffening from the long winch bumper mounts.

 

I am going a different route on my next front axle. I will be transferring a lot of the steering forces to the axle housing/truss using a hydro-assist cylinder powered and controlled by the steering box hydraulics. When my Jeep is nose down in a ditch at 45 degrees or so it is impossible to steer even just a tiny amount with bigger tyres. I am hoping hydro-assist will help alleviate this problem and as a bonus reduce the stress on the steering box at the frame rail. Perhaps enough to put the deeper pitman arm back on.

I was looking for a sort of steering box brace bar when I found the Ironman thing so went for it.  I have a track bar drop and a longer pitman, but didn't want to revert to stock. It's a nice shallow angle for both the track bar and the steering arm now.

The only time I'd be 45 degrees in a ditch would be if I crashed!

 

https://ironman4x4fab.com/products/xj-steering-box-brace

Edited October 7, 2022 by Fourpot

[digger]

That 'Iron Man' kit looks substantial.  I think I have the 'traditional'  transverse  bar  V  describes.

[Fourpot]

Well, haven't done much to the Jeep since October. Had a new cat-back exhaust made up by Peco on the Wirral. Now just one nice silencer and fewer joints. Previously there was too much drone at 2,000 rpm (70mph), but the sound at low revs was great. Now I have all the noise I want and none of the noise I don't want.

Other than the hiccup with the temp sender a year ago, it's now done a reliable 10,000 miles (thanks largely to the RMT and ASLEF), until I was heading home down the M6, southbound about two miles from my junction (J16) altogether just 15 minutes away.  Four lanes here, no hard shoulder, 40 mph limit in force, everyone going slower than that due to the volume of traffic.

Suddenly, oil pressure gauge drop to 0, red light come on and at the same moment engine stops. I'm in lane 3. Luckily managed to get it in N and coast to lane 1, courtesy of two HGVs in lanes 2 and 3, who made me space. HATOs turned up quite quickly and towed me a mile to a rare SOS lay-by. Now only 14 minutes from home. The colossal incompetence of the RAC is another story, but I got home 8.5 hours later and £150 lighter.

Jeep up on the lift, drop the sump. Now, I had wondered why the engine had stopped the very instant the oil pressure went, rather than soldier on until it melted. The oil pump is driven by the dizzy, which is driven by the camshaft. I wondered if between them, they'd both jammed/stopped. Luckily this would mean that the engine had not run at all without oil pressure.

On inspection I found the oil pump was loose and rocking on its two (loose) bolts, the oil pump shaft had snapped where it is driven by the dizzy, but had indeed also jammed the dizzy. I took that out and the dizzy drive gear was chewed. Luckily the cam gear is fine (a knackered cam would be rather distressing). (I know that conrod looks dry, but I had just wiped it as oil was dripping on my head)

Sump cleaned up and the broken bit found (three cheers for sump magnets!). New dizzy, oil pump, and sump gasket ordered, along with new oil and filter (time for an oil change anyway). 

Although I have found no reference to using threadlock in any video or anything on the internet, or in a manual, there'll be plenty of Loctite going on the oil pump bolts this time. I am positive I torqued them up properly originally, but that'll be triple checked too.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Fourpot